The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To be clear, this is relevant because of the frequent claims that USSF is protecting MLS with exclusive D1 status. Despite at one point being tied even more closely to the NWSL than it ever was to MLS, USSF sanctioned a competing D1 league.
     
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  2. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Luckily, I have a bachelor's in History from Penn State.
     
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  3. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    DING DING DING DING

    And the problem is that folks that are 10-12yrs into being HARDCORE SOCCERZFANZ simply don't get how precarious things were ... and just how close their start of giving a crap was to the league (and top flight national soccer) going kaput AGAIN.

    It's the thing I've harped on and stated the most in the entirety of this argument. MLS FOLKS DID THE WORK ... not just for the league, but for the sport (regardless of what detractors want to say). The did what NOBODY (not even the original NASL) did and built the actual pieces of the puzzle the SPORT needed to survive here at this level.

    Now the folks that are whining, bitching, and crying about pro/rel (fans and people in the game) both don't acknowledge that FACT and also simply refuse to do their portion of the work for what they want. Period, end of.

    Citation needed.

    If this is the route you wanna go, then it ain't USSF you want to point to.

    LOL, selectively applying the phuck out of your principle. In relative terms, there's no difference. LMMFAO ... get out with this $h!t.

    Either you're full of crap with this (you are) OR you're admitting that the SCALE of things matters to pro/rel here. Either way you're dumping on yourself or half the pro/rel for usa argument.
     
  4. AlbertCamus

    AlbertCamus Member+

    Colorado Rapids
    Sep 2, 2005
    Colorado, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    I have stormed the pitch after college football team won its only game of the season. Being on the field is fun no matter what the excuse.
     
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  5. psnotyours

    psnotyours Member

    Bvb
    United States
    Mar 8, 2023
    Are you a teacher??
     
  6. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Not yet. I applied to teach in Appalachia. They haven't responded yet.
     
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  7. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Penn State does not allow goalposts to be torn down. My friend Rick (who is a teacher) told me that they are buried deep so students won't tear them down after victories. I helped tear down the goalposts after Delaware beat Wofford (SC) in the 2003 second tier NCAA gridiron semifinal. Newark, DE is a cool college town if you don't know. Now you do.
     
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  8. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This you?

    upload_2024-2-12_10-46-58.jpeg
     
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  9. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
  10. AlbertCamus

    AlbertCamus Member+

    Colorado Rapids
    Sep 2, 2005
    Colorado, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    That is fans caring though, instead of drifting off and finding something else to do.
     
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  11. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    Nah, USL-C could become D1 with a bunch of new owners who meet the $40 million net worth for the majority owner; $70 million net worth of all owners; and more 15,000 seat stadiums to avoid all that messy waiver stuff.

    Quality on the field can remain a step below MLS, hell it could get worse, they'd still be D1 if they meet the PLS.
     
  12. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They would also have to be in larger markets for the majority of teams in the league in order to meet the D1 PLS requirements.
     
  13. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    You're right. Nothing about on field quality...
     
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  14. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What do the financial and stadium requirements of nearly every league around the world have to do with on field quality?
     
  15. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    In this case, it was someone saying "USL has to improve on field quality to be D1", which isn't true. They have to improve off the field quality.

    In nearly every other league, on field quality matters first - you win, then you meet the requirements that let you promote - all seaters, going from artificial surfaces to grass, etc.
     
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  16. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1. 75% of teams would have to be from metro areas bigger than Omaha, Nebraska. So there's still room for North Colorado hailstorm, which is in a metro area of 43,000.

    2. If you are using Metropolitan Statistical Areas to establish market size, there are over 100 significant cities in those MSAs. For instance Wilmington is part of the Philadelphia MSA. However, of you're using media markets the reach expands. Buffalo is considered the smallest major league market because Green Bay is included in Milwaukee media market, even though it's not in the Milwaukee MSA.

    3. The USSF standards aren't set in stone. They will deter someone from starting a league in North Dakota, which is the size of England and Wales combined with a population of 775,000, and calling it D1.
    The rules can be amended which is why USSF has a working party, so if hypothetically there was a 20 D1 team with 5 "small market" teams and a sixth was in danger of promotion, the league could lobby for an amendment.

    4. Name a first division anywhere where more than 25% of teams are from outside the top 55 markets.

    As barriers go, this specific requirement is nominal.
     
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  17. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How many USL Championship teams are in MSA's of less than 1 million? Current USSF PLS would allow 7 teams from markets less than 1 million in a 30 team MLS.

    There are rules across the globe that say that teams must meet certain standards to be eligible for promotion.
     
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  18. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    Yes and how many USL-C owners do not have $40 million net worth? Yes and how many stadiums are less than 15,000 seats. The answer my friend, is found on google if anybody really cares, the answers are found on the google...

    So glad Woodie Guthrie and Bob Dylan weren't Millenials....
     
  19. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    #40319 M, Feb 12, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2024
    Whatever words you want to use, they are two womens leagues where membership is not decided by performances on the field of play but solely by acceptance of a cartel membership fee by the league in question.

    They also require 75% of teams to be in conurbations of at least 1 million and for teams to be in 3 at least three timezones. There are also requirements on the net worth of owners. There are no requirements to have had any level of performance in a lower division or even to have existed. There are no requirements based on performances on the field of play to accept teams for promotion from a lower league or to relegate teams to a lower league. So, yes, the rules are set up for closed leagues and not pro/rel leagues.

    Finding 12 teams is a little different from an individual club working its way up in a pro/rel system.
     
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  20. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    But Bury! But Macclesfield Town!
     
  21. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Exactly. You get in a promotion position and almost certainly you get promoted. The last team to be refused promotion to the Football League was over a quarter of a century ago. It's conceivable that it could happen again, but extremely unlikely as the rules now allow a "grace period" for newly promoted teams to reach the stadium standards of the level above.

    And, of course, there is a flip side in that pro/rel leagues... relegate teams based on performance on the field of play.
     
  22. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I haven't mentioned them lately.
     
  23. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A USL club's principal owner must have $20 million. A principal owner can be a corporation - see NYCFC. That seems reasonable considering the operating expenses of running a USL C team.

    Bob Dylan is worth $500 million.
     
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  24. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I totally get why MLS owners don't want to go down the pro/rel route. A closed league increases the value of their franchises. Doesn't mean it's the best league for the fans though.

    I also understand why 20 years ago the system that created the most value for the owners could also be seen as the best for the fans because we were on the verge of losing the league altogether so the system that encouraged the most investment was by far the best option. But we aren't in that world anymore.

    I like playoffs you'll never see me advocating eliminating playoffs in MLS. I just don't like a playoff with more than half the teams that keeps changing the format for different rounds.

    Also playoffs are tricky with soccer. The moment you introduce penalty shootouts you give incentive to the underdogs to play a more defensive game. Two legged ties eliminates home field advantage for the higher seed and needing at least two rest days between games makes a series harder, and reduces the jeopardy and drama of the games. Again not saying MLS shouldn't have playoffs but the more streamlined the better.

    For me the open pyramid is part of the appeal for sure but not the only reason and far from a non negotiable. Even without a "open Pyramid" you still have the drama of the relegation fight. And still have a lower division competition that can gain promotion. Just because I team can't come from the 12th division doesn't eliminate the drama of that. Plus it allows you to continue to add teams.

    Plus I still think that expansion is a little like getting close to the speed of light. The closer you get the more energy you need to speed up. The larger the league the harder it is to expand. So having a second division does open up more markets.

     
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  25. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    We were talking about impediments to USL-C being D1. The principal owners not being worth $40 million is likely a big one. Along with the seating, market size, etc.

    Nothing to do with demonstrated on field quality.
     

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