The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

I think the goalposts just moved. We were talking about owning clubs to make a profit and now we're talking about protection against bankruptcy.

It's interesting that you're OK with bankruptcy being a punishment for having a bad season. Others in the pro-rel camp have argued it shouldn't be.

 

Well, bankruptcy was the against argument of the no-p/r supporters, because in their pov, relegation means going down financially.
I'm not okay with bankruptcy as a consequence, it's to me just one of the possible outcomes, mostly the last one after keeping on being bad at what you do.
Edit: and the goal posts didnot move, they're the same as when this conversation started. It's just a different angle on the same thing.

 

Well you said that American owners were only in it for the profits.

When I pointed out that MLS clubs don't make profits you changed it to well American owners don't want to risk bankruptcy.

Anyway, MLS is a cartel running a Ponzi scheme, so all the investors will lose all their money and you and M will be happy.

 

Only one country has the land mass we do and has a successful Pro/Rel system. Soccer is pretty much the only thing Brazil has going for them. Even Brazil is smaller than the USA. Most people in Russia live in the west
Since soccer is still growing in the USA, I don't think it's time to add Pro/Rel. If the US was as big as England or Japan then yes add Pro/Rel.
I also think Pro/Rel will not help the growth of soccer in the USA.

 

Brazil top-flight.

 

A rough equivalent in the US and Canada, if you shift the map upward so that it's all on land: Kansas City, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Montreal, three teams in Tennessee, and 13 teams along the Gulf coast.

 

Or more realistically in the US, 2-3 teams in the NY/NJ/NE area, 4-6 teams in Florida, 4-6 teams in Texas, 6-8 teams in CA, SEA, POR, Atl, with another layer of FCC, KC, Philly, Columbus and more teams from Florida, Texas and California behind them.

It's ok to have a cluster of the best teams instead of trying to have "markets" cover the entire geography...Apply TV is available everywhere

 

Let's assume MLS adds Pro/Rel.
Other states like Hawaii and Alaska would like to join so how would you fix that?

 

People would still not watch until a proper calendar was played, fall to speing.

 

As long as they adopt the European policy of postponing games when it's 31 degrees Fahrenheit because the steps are a bit slippy.

 

americans are just moving arguments now it is if galazy get relageted they will get parashute and still be better then rest of teams. problem with usa in just about everything they points have global pull but in football does not nobody wants closed leagues nobody wants plastic innovations of new competitions and bs just for money if anything in football world pull outweights the american exeptionaliam or what ever you want to call it.nobody is impressed that in fe years value of mls teams have gone up because that seams that everything these mls people are concerned about

 

You don't know that.

This is a pretty big difference

But they only needed money to get and maintain status in the league.

 

You think they'd pay $500 million to become San Diego 1904?

 

Nope but I am still not sure how him paying 500 million helps me as a fan. And as you hinted at San Diego had a variety of clubs before SDFC so maybe one of them would have been promoted.

 

I come from a background of following and appreciating American sports, so merely gaining entry into a league is no accomplishment. There is no status for the teams I support without winning. Heck, even if I moved to England permanently and adopted the local team no way I’ll ever storm the pitch because my team finished 17th and avoided relegation.

 

Interesting quote from a Rovers group chat I'm in:

Which is certainly a contrary take to what we're led to believe about fans of teams in P/R systems...

I'm sure some people will question if this person is a true fan of the team or not, but its an idea that's out there and shouldn't be ignored.

 

Every year when struggling clubs escape relegation the fans celebrate wildly, in the old days they used to storm the pitch, I've done it myself as a boy, 14th May 1983, Chelsea 0 - 0 Middlesbrough, we stayed in the 2nd tier on goal difference, it was celebrated like we'd won the league!! (now the authorities have really clamped down on pitch invasions) I've seen fans of relegated clubs in tears....................I've never seen fans celebrate a relegation, not one ever. I've also never seen fans lament at getting promoted! Not one ever!

About year after running on to the pitch in celebration at escaping relegation on the last match day in 83 Chelsea fans again stormed on the pitch - 28th April 1984 Chelsea 5 - 0 Leeds United - the day when promotion back to the top tier was confirmed (with 3 games to spare).
I've experienced both sides of the coin and I remember that day every bit as much as the days when we won the league and Champions League.

How relegation feels:-


How promotion feels:-

 

Blackburn did win the Prem in 1995, so there's that.

 

I was describing it in terms of travel distance, not population centers.

 

Relegation battles are the worst. Fans turning on the manager, the board, the players and each other. A "great escape" can provide some relief and optimism for the next season but often they just postpone the inevitable. Ask a Reading fan how their season is going.

 

Do you think Pro/Rel will bring more positive or negative things in the USA for soccer growth?

 

I think negative.

 

It seems to be growing pretty well without it.

In 2014 we had 38 professional teams in the US, including reserve teams, today we have 96. I don't think some of those teams would exist if we had pro-rel.

The biggest constraint to growth in the number of teams, I think, is the process of transitioning from amateur/semi-pro to professional. But that constraint would be there with or without pro-rel.

 

Well of course there's "no status" in gaining entry to a league and it's "no (sporting) accomplishment". Because there isn't any. All you have to do is get your cartel membership fee accepted. Meanwhile, in a competitive pro/rel pyramid there's some actual sporting accomplishment on the field of play that needs to happen to play in a higher league and failuure sees you going back down rather than rewarded for said failure.