The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Goodison is bereft of atmosphere when it's full. I went there to watch Notts on a cold winter's night in front of 14,556. It was so much fun that the next season we played there on a Saturday afternoon and only 13,191 showed up. Different era.
     
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  2. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nevertheless you will see that Goodison Park is ALWAYS full, and as you can see from the multiple links I posted Everton sell out EVERY league game, they have done for years and as you can see from their own ticketing office they are selling out their future fixtures exactly like they have done for many years now. There are NOT 15'000 empty seats at Goodison Park and I can guarantee there won't be between now and the end of the season.
     
  3. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    #39478 Crawleybus, Dec 1, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2023
    When Notts County were last in the same tier as Everton the 'average' attendance of Division 1 (Premier League) was 21'622 (thanks to hooliganism) HOWEVER the 'average' attendance of the 2nd tier (Championship) was a mere 10'525 (thanks to hooliganism). Evertons lowest attendance so far this season has been 38'683, their lowest attendance last season was 38'939.

    SO no matter what the era and no matter which way you look at it supporters have ALWAYS preferred to play in the top tier (of course they do), and it is of course the lower tier clubs, and their fans ultimate goal!

    Incidentally the 'average' attendance at Goodison that year was 23,148, higher than the divisional 'average' their 'lowest' attendance was 14'783, which is almost 5'000 higher than the 2nd tier (Championship) average of that season. Evertons lowest league attendance (since 1926) was 7'802 for a game in season 1934/35.
     
  4. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There are different levels of winning. It's on a continuum it's not binary.

    Winning a lower division and gaining promotion is a different higher level of winning than just winning a lower division.
     
  5. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is it?
     
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  6. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Funny I've heard the exact opposite from Liverpool fans who obviously aren't going to be quick to compliment their neighbors across the park.
     
  7. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes
     
  8. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Not for me. I want to see my USL club win the league for the sake of winning the league. Anything else would be a scheduling/structural matter.
     
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  9. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Indeed. The last time my team was promoted we were champions. But the main feeling was one of excitement at playing at a higher level the following season and that if we win promotion again we’ll be even higher in the pyramid etc etc. I bet those are the emotions of the vast majority of Wrexham and Notts County fans…

    Of course I can see why you may feel differently if your club doesn't play in a competitive pro/rel pyramid.
     
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  10. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's right.

    If your team plays in a system where the goal is to play at a higher level then that's what you celebrate. But fans of teams where theres no promotion and relegation still celebrate winning championships.
     
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  11. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Indeed. Those who support teams in a pro/rel pyramid celebrate wiinning the league... and more. Or finishing second... and more. Or finshing... and more.

    And that's the thing with pro/rel. Promotion has an impact beyond the current season, as does relegation. It's simply an added dimension from closed leagues.
     
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  12. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And in MLS you celebrate winning MLS Cup, and in the regular season you celebrate winning the Supporters Shield, and winning your Conference, and qualifying for the playoffs, then there's the Champions Cup and the potential path to the World Club Championship.
     
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  13. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    And in lower leagues?

    Of course playoffs and pro/rel are not mutually exclusive anyway.
     
  14. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Good American pro/rel story: The University of Delaware is beginning its transition from FCS to FBS in gridiron NCAA football.
     
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  15. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    (R) The Big 12 Gridiron Championship between Oklahoma State and Texas is 35-14 at the half. The Premiership match is scoreless. This shows issues for soccer in the USA.
     
  16. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    You mean Americans like their sporting contests to effectively be over by half time? Ok.
     
  17. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    No, I mean Americans like high scoring and voluntary pro/rel.
     
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  18. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Pulsating MLS Eastern Conference Final just finished. Cincinnati go up 2-0 at the half. Columbus fight back to equalize in normal time, then grab a winner in extra time. Cincy coach Noonan will be criticized for leaving a clearly unfit Acosta in ET. Will the Western Conference Final live up to it? We shall see.
     
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  19. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    49-21 final score. Yeah for a “high scoring” game that was effectively over by halftime if not before.

    Meanwhile Everton beat Nottingham Forest 1-0 in a nail biter to the final whistle.
     
  20. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah a real nail biter. Forest's tactic of not having a shot on target until the 86th minute was only outdone by Everton's incompetence in front of goal.

    I'm praying that Forest's form continues and Burnley manage to scrape a few lucky wins.

    Screenshot_20231202_215053_Chrome.jpg
     
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  21. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Oklahoma State is not a particularly good team.
     
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  22. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    All the "better" to get one of those magic "high scoring games" then.
     
  23. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    By the way, this is the second time this season that Cincinnati have lost a semifinal after coughing up a 2-goal lead at home... same thing happened in the US Open Cup.
     
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  24. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nobody ever said that ...

    How does that go against what he, and I said? You aren't celebrating the promotion w/out the winning. The winning is what qualifies it, period.

    ... and again, different doesn't inherently mean "better" or "higher" or "more important" ... Was it a higher level of winning for the Cleveland Stars?

    And personally, I'd rather see SAFC be USLC winners/top 5 team than. To me that's a higher level of winning than ushering yourselves into an arena you'll be lucky to compete in.

    ... but that goes back to winning, or not. We see impacts beyond current seasons due to winning/or the lack of w/out pro/rel.

    ... winning the title, winning the shield, winning your conference, winning the USOC or getting a cupset ... beating your rivals

    You know, winning

    Soccer equivalent 7-3

    Meanwhile, Burnley beat SheffU 35-0 this weekend.
     
  25. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I suspect there are at the moment.
     
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