Yes, in the sense that they're committed to a particular sport. American fans are, for the most part, casual fans of all of their city's clubs across multiple sports. With the exception of a small minority of diehards, it's a matter of "out of sight, out of mind" when the city still has multiple top-tier clubs in other sports. Even in countries where soccer isn't the only major sport, fan interest tends to be in the specific club, and fan allegiance doesn't jump from one sport to an entirely different sport nearly as much as it does in the US. And it's not just the revenue side that's an issue in the US; clubs with similar revenue in the US and Europe are not comparable because even USL Championship clubs have to travel as much as perennial Champions League contenders.
Someone more deserving than my Rapids would be promoted though, and get the attendance bump. Detroit maybe.
When the major/minor division is cast in concrete, that's hardly a surprise given there's generally no way to improve your league status based on performances on the field of play.
But but but in a closed system players (and owners) don't have any incentives to win if they're bottom table.
I don't think people in the US are more bandwagon fans than other places, it really seems more like a matter of "out of sight, out of mind" with top-tier teams in other sports being covered more heavily. I tend to think of the bandwagon effect as being about competition for fans between clubs in the same sport, and the US problem as one of competition for eyeballs between completely separate sports. I would be surprised if more than 10% of the people packing the stands for Atlanta United were even aware of the Atlanta Silverbacks existing before Atlanta was awarded a MLS expansion franchise.
So read your post, Americans won't support their local and only want the best right? That's how your previous post reads to me. Accept what about college football? What about College Basketball? What about 12,000 (sell out) at San Diego Gulls hockey games? (yeh the two dollar beers help but still). 14,000 at Sac republic, same in Cincinnati before MLS came along. Yes American have a big distinction between "minor/major" historically but that's because our minor leagues are development leagues not lower leagues. Who wants to go scream yell and get passionately behind a team that isn't focused on wins and loses, but on developing players for another city. But when we have genuine lower leagues that matter people support it. Tell people in Montana that FCS Football doesn't matter. When you say pro/rel won't work because Americans don't like minor leagues sounds like you are saying Americans are just glory hunters. Which I reject. I don't think Pro/rel will work in the US because "hey it works in Europe". I think it will work in the US because of US fans.
But that's not the case in college sports. In college sports its more like Europe where it's a cultural thing more than a sports entertainment thing. That's because it is part of the community. And that's what clubs in Europe and other parts of the world are as well, parts of the community not just entertainment businesses. And I guess it's a chicken/egg situation. Is the American team/fan relationship more of a business/customer relationship because that's how the fans want it? Or is it that way because that's how fans are treated so that's how they act. I think a lot of US fans long for a relationship where they feel like they are part of the club more than just customers. Now I am not trying to say MLS will become college football. Of course not you have 150 years of history and generations of bonding in college football. But it doesn't need to be. We're talking catchment areas of millions of people. Greater Manchester and the West Midlands would be mid sized markets in the US with only one club. With the size of our economy and our population MLS could be the "best" league outside of Europe as the fifth biggest pro sports league in the US. I think building around the diehards (while still being inclusive) is the best model for MLS. As for continental travel I agree it's a challenge but it's a challenge that both MLS and USL are already facing and dealing with. Not sure how it would get worse with pro/rel.
@STR1 US fans are fairweather? Umm I reject that and see my earlier posts for why, but you're now the third person who has said essentially the same thing. So if that's true what I don't want to hear then is MLS apologists complaining about Eurosnobs not following MLS. If we all agree European fans are more dedicated (which I don't but many on here seem to) than it's only fair that I want to dedicate my sports watching time to the leagues with the most dedicated supporters.
"This is the greatest season of my life" "I thought about relegation for about ten minutes after" - Natalie Bromley, Burnley supporter on the "The Anfield Wrap" Just leaving this here in response to comments about "they might as well fold the club" when talking about relegation.
Nike seems to have the most devoted fans but I usually choose other brands of shoes that fit me better.
No, a relegated team in a city like Philadelphia will drastically decline in media coverage. The Open Cup crowds will be the only ones attending a relegated team. Only a few promotable cities can support MLS attendances. The vast majority of US sports fans have no clue what pro/rel is. The Grauniad had an article a while back about Pittsburgh's stadium and how it was awful it was that they couldn't get promoted. Most US sports fans would laugh at a team with a 5000 seat stadium being in the top flight. They'd likely have to move to Heinz Field.
That's an interesting point because college teams are effectively multi-sport clubs, and are expected to be multi-sport clubs. College teams have less need to remind people that they exist. On the other hand, if a pro team were to disappear from the top flight, lack of coverage might cause casual fans to forget the team still exists, or even to believe the team has folded, especially in cities with multiple major league teams. Sacramento does not disprove this point either. The only "major league" team in town plays a winter season so is not competing for attention for the whole season, and had been awful for almost a decade when Republic FC started playing. The Rivercats also had the highest attendance in minor league baseball at the same time, for similar reasons.
Seriously?????? Time, history, age .... That's how. P/R has been intrinsic to the game for over a century in the biggest places and from the get to in most others. The entire landscape and view of how sports operate is entirely different. We have HS/Collegiate sports that occupy the fandom/support below the major league level. I mean, you're seriously positing this question?? WOW How is citing the exact teams we're talking about, cherry picking? I looked at the most recent high profile examples. They showed the opposite of what you're saying is the case. They sucked, and trying to fight of relegation didn't make them better. Circumstance doesn't make better shit players into quality players just by being there ... You admit the perception earlier, just below this, and admit here it's a perception .... But are saying I'm assuming. That's, ... interesting to say the least. Stakes add to a game, yes. Do they make the quality better? No. We've all watched high stakes games that in all honesty weren't good. The stakes provided any excitement, not the game itself. This is individual preference. I've had interest in both over the other at times. And that's their perception on the matter ... which doesn't affect other fans as you've pointed out yourself. Beating inferior competition to what your Rapids played isn't deserving of anything. And I say that as a founding supporter member of the team that is the defending USLC Champion.
“They are used to it here, not playing for anything important. They don’t want to play under pressure, under stress.”“This is Tottenham’s story. 20 years of the owner & they never win anything. Why?”Antonio Conte doesn’t hold back in his post match press conference 🔥 🔥 pic.twitter.com/Qj1DMZYWKW— talkSPORT (@talkSPORT) March 18, 2023 Since perception has entered the convo ...
"Eurosnobs" are Americans that follow European leagues. Usually fans of top teams that never go through any relegation danger. Europeans....well they live in Europe and they follow THEIR own leagues not MLS. Yes, Europeans are better fans then Americans because they support THEIR local team through ups and downs, if they are mediocre or not and playing in any division. Americans...well we are fairweather fans that support for the main part only winners in ANY sport. Thus why "Eurosnobs", aka American fans of Euro teams, would rather support top teams from the world's top leagues; the winning teams mainly. These 'fairweather American Eurosnob fans' don't want to deal with supporting such a mediocre domestic league even if it's their local team playing in our own top domestic league or lower.
I don't think that "Eurosnobs" are simply Americans who follow European leagues. I think it's a lot more complicated than that. I think that Eurosnobs are Americans who only follow European leagues and look down their noses at American leagues, believing that also following American leagues is beneath them.
Maybe attendances in MLS are high like they are in Mexico because at the start of every season every team has a chance of winning the championship, except San Jose.
If you speak to a Kenyan or Vietnamese Eurosnob they'll tell you they watch European leagues because their domestic leagues are boring. There was an episode of Top Gear where they were in a disputed part of Myanmar or Thailand. They were standing outside a local cafe talking about how many locals had never seen a white person with a huge "Barclays Premier League" banner behind them.
So there was no pressure involved in getting to a Champions League final including winning the semifinal after being 3-0 down on aggregate and seconds from elimination? Sounds like Conte is begging for being "sacked in the morning".
.So knockout competitions are equal to league OH WAIT NO Perception... Just like how Arsenal got dogged for no ambition by being satisfied with 4th for forever. No biggie, just whatevs ... Spurs are happy to be the team just below the top and above the rest. No pressure, no cares.
Yeah, this. Plus there are subgenres of Eurosnobism. Like American fans who think they are not only too sophisticated for domestic soccer, but for English football as well and constantly talk about how our player should avoid England and go elsewhere in Europe.
Replace pro/rel with soccer and you sound exactly like sports reporters I used to read in the 90's explaining why soccer will never catch on in this country, Maybe you are right, maybe American fans are just fair weather and won't follow anything outside of the top flight (I envision and MLS1,2 model so they wouldn't be outside of MLS). Maybe old media is the single biggest factor in gaining attendance and if Americans don't read about it in their local paper or see it on their local news they won't go. But it's kind of interesting that the "Eurosnob" seems to have the most faith in American fans. Because there are probably 10-12 clubs in this position every year. You then quoted other teams that went the exact other way, sides that were safe and fell off a cliff. We could both go back every season and pick out examples both ways tit for tat for ever. Yes you said we need to stop "False narratives" but you don't know it's a false narrative and don't have any evidence that it's a false narrative. I don't have any direct evidence either, but I do have pretty much everyone involved in the game on my side. If you going to try and fight the battle that avoiding relegation and improving your playoff seeding are in any way the same thing have at it. But guessing you won't get a lot of takers agreeing with you.