The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    I understand. However you are not considering the differential created by Burnley being in the Premier League this season versus Sheffield United not being. Whichever way you want to cut it Burnley received more last season and will receive a lot more this season and the next than Sheffield even if they are relegated this season. The only way that wouldn’t happen is for Sheffield United to be promoted this season, which seems highly unlikely.
     
  2. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Blades are 9th based on PPG and have won their last 4 matches. In fact they haven't lost since November 6th. They have a decent chance of making the playoffs if they bolster their injury plagued defence.
     
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  3. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I broadly agree but the thing is I still think the City situation is different less about the length of time and more how they got the money. While I hated Man U.'s dominance during Fergie's years and of course heard some conspiracy theories (how many pens did they give away at Old Trafford?) there was an understanding that they were there on merit with a core of players who came up through their youth setup.

    Plus even though they were dominating their point totals weren't that crazy. Other clubs could reasonably believe they could challenge if they just got their act together. Now unless you have a squad capable of getting 100 points your only hope is City screwing up.
     
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  4. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    If Burnley get relegated and Sheffield United get promoted they will both have played in the Premier League in two of last, this and next seasons. So they logically should be getting around the same money anyway.
     
  5. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I remember what happened when Matt Busby retired. There was no way a transition from Fergie to his successor would go completely smoothly.
     
  6. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The fun of lower-league football. Chester FC is in the National League North in England. However their stadium is sitting on the England-Wales border. So much so that it is almost entirely in Wales except for one small corner of the stand and the club offices attached to the stadium. Because of the offices being in England the club has an English address.

    Well Wales has just told them that despite being an English club in the English pyramid, they are breaking Welsh law by not following the Welsh COVID guidelines for fans (which limits teams to 50 fans right now) since the pitch and stands are in Wales.

    https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/welsh-covid-rules-used-ban-22678098
     
  7. AlbertCamus

    AlbertCamus Member+

    Colorado Rapids
    Sep 2, 2005
    Colorado, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    #33357 AlbertCamus, Jan 7, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2022
    There is "completely smoothly" and there is 10 years in the wilderness. What, two trophies? Irregular Champions League qualification? I did not see that coming. Mind you, I'm not a fan, so I've enjoyed it.
     
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  8. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    It's nothing to do with them currently playing in non-league football. Wales has banned crowds at all levels. For example, Wales upcoming rugby union internationals may be played in England. Not at Chester's ground though, obviously...

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/r...loring-option-playing-home-games-ENGLAND.html
     
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  9. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not specifically lower league, no. But it feels like the type of thing that happens to a lower league team but wouldn't happen to a PL or Championship team because any confusion about who's rules apply where would have been sorted out long ago.
     
  10. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    There's plenty of evidence to suggest that that was indeed sorted out long ago. For example, the stadium was built under Cheshire planning regulations, all policing was done by Cheshire police etc. I doubt those things were done without the agreement of Welsh authorities. I hope that commonsense prevails here, but I'm doubtful it will.
     
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  11. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    2 seasons after Busby left (for the second time) the 1967/68 European Cup winners were relegated.
     
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  12. AlbertCamus

    AlbertCamus Member+

    Colorado Rapids
    Sep 2, 2005
    Colorado, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
  13. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Highlighted the part I wanted to address. While they aren't part of the prem anymore they did still contribute to what the prem is going forward. An example of this is Norwich in 19-20. While as a whole the season didn't go well they still had some exciting matches specifically when they beat the defending champions at a raucous Carrow Road.
     
  14. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah but in 1992 when the ground was built guessing they didn't factor in an incredibly politicized worldwide pandemic in a Britain were health policy was devolved to the Welsh Assembly. At the end of the day there are pretty fundamental differences in how Covid should be handled between a Labour controlled Welsh Assembly and the Conservative controlled Westminster Parliament. I don't think it's a case of Lower League vs PL just another example of our crazy world.
     
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  15. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Perhaps the irony is that three of those clubs (including Luton) were either founder members of the premier league, or would have been, had they not been relegated in the season they chose to vote to break away.

    Northampton would have joined that "elite" group in 1994 had Kiddermister's ground not been up to League standard at the time, and Burnley were one game away from being the first, had they not won on the final day in 1987.


    As for parachute payments - why do Premier League clubs want to stop them? Simple. It would make it easier for them to stay up, by making clubs vying for promotion financially weaker.

    I can fully see the logic behind parachute payments - clubs coming down will be paying far high wages than most championship clubs, even for players who aren't that great. Players are fast to demand pay rises when clubs go up, but clubs struggle to negotiate equivalent pay drops upon relegation.

    It's not easy to work out a solution. Removing them completely would see many relegated clubs fail the league's FFP rules in the first season. Spreading more money to the championship would just see a similar cash gap appear between the championship and League One - and there's already a natural gap appearing there now.


    Even here, not many understand how it works. I've heard some say the premier league should go down to 18 teams because there have been some very weak premier league teams lately. That fails to appreciate why those teams might be weak, but also completely fails to realise that cutting to 18 teams wouldn't make a blind bit of difference, because the three promoted clubs would face exactly the same issues as now.
     
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  16. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep, both Luton and Notts voted in favor of forming the EPL.

    The Premier League wants to keep parachute payments, its the EFL that wants to stop them according to The Guardian.

    Whereas the EFL has targeted parachute payments as a major problem, the Premier League had remained defiant in support of the current system – citing the £1.5bn it transfers down the leagues over a three-year period.

    EFL chief says parachute payments are 'an evil that must be eradicated'
    • Rick Parry hits out at Premier League over rescue package
    • Football needs a ‘compete reset’ including wage cuts
     
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  17. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If it's in Wales they have to obey Welsh law. I assume Swansea, Cardiff, Newport and Wrexham are affected too.
     
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  18. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But is it? As M pointed out. Up to this point the stadium has been administered as if it were English, not Welsh. And what determines the location of a building that crosses the border?

    (There's a, likely apocryphal. tale of a casino built with the California-Nevada border running down the middle. Tables were supposedly built on wheels so when the California authorities showed up all the bar/tables would be wheeled onto the Nevada side, so they weren't breaking any laws in California, and vice versa when Nevada authorities showed up.)
     
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  19. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #33369 Paul Berry, Jan 8, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2022
    It's Welsh law, nothing to do with football authorities. Chester's stadium entrances are in Wales.

    Cardiff and Swansea will be playing behind closed doors.
     
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  20. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And they were compensated for it already with their tv money payout for the season ...
     
  21. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  22. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  23. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Someone forgot to tell the Lions and Jaguars they were playing for the top draft pick today
     
  24. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Again, the case for pro/rel has to be made to the investor/operators of MLS as well as the commisioner. That's the way the cookie crumbles.
     
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  25. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Obviously the players forgot the rules and just assumed they were in a relegation thriller.
     
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