The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Yeah, but how does that make AM/Mex talents choose for El Tri, while he's a manager of LAG
     
  2. In Mexico they think he's going to be beneficial:

    upload_2021-11-27_20-44-17.png upload_2021-11-27_20-44-17.png
     
  3. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Presumably because he still has relationships within the Mexican Federation.

    Galaxy fans putting two and two together and making five.
     
  4. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Ah, so we're back to the comparison with tournaments that need to decide a champion in a relatively small number of games, not a season's worth.

    "Could do better".

    Yeah, but without pro/rel to create an incentive from the bottom up, oversized playoffs are pretty much the only way to retain interest for a critical mass of teams. That's the issue.

    It's still a bar but, equally, oversized playoffs do reduce the importance of regular season games.
     
  5. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    "Already relegated" Norwich City drew this weekend and remain a "massive" three points behind the team in the first non-relegation position.

    “Playoff contenders” The Detroit Lions had their traditional Thanksgiving Day home defeat and are relentlessly closing in on the Best Draft Choices Championship. This time they pissed away a lead and lost to a last second field goal. It's almost as if they're trying to lose...
     
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  6. Doogh

    Doogh Member+

    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    False dichotomies for $200, Alex.
     
  7. Doogh

    Doogh Member+

    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Real Salt Lake 2-1 against Sporting Kansas City in another Cupset. Johnny Russell head down in shame.

    But hey, Scottish Premiership is fun and intense with just Celtic or Rangers winning league titles year after year.

    Southampton and Hertha Berlin will probably try to make up for a UEFA Conference League spot? or not...
     
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  8. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    False dichotomies for $200, Alex.
     
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  9. Doogh

    Doogh Member+

    Oct 5, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unfortunately, there isn't an incentive to mid-table teams being, well, in mid-table. So.. playoffs maybe? Could work in Bundesliga, imo than predictable Bayern league title wins.

    NFL is a poor example, hence your false dilemma. Detroit can get a better team with a roster turnover in the offseason instead of demoting to a ficitious minor league level. American football doesn't really have 'divisions' (and no, 'promoting' a college football team full of 20 year olds to face NFL teams is delusional)

    At least Detroit has a better chance at winning the Super Bowl, they already won four NFL Championships, than Norwich winning the Premier League, which is never. That's the entire gist of pro/rel - it helps the bigger brand teams like Chelsea at the top division while giving smaller teams like Norwich meaningless participation trophies to play for.

    Your argument doesn't carry any weight, no matter how many times you repeat it.
     
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  10. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Someone remind me of how many Super Bowls Detroit have played in?

    I mean, let's get real here. The only things Detroit are good for is losing on Thanksgiving Day and winning the Best Draft Choices Championship.

    Honestly, the level of denial of some of the anti pro/relers is pretty remarkable.
     
  11. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    DC United
    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Where are former champions Ipswich Town now? At least the Detroit Lions are still in the top flight.
     
  12. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    MLS playoffs are the best. I find it hard to switch back to Euro league play during the duration.
     
  13. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If RSL beat Portland this run will be the stuff of legend.
     
  14. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's only because the supposed "top teams" get to retain their group stage status year over year instead of having to play for it on the field like the clubs that have to go through the 4 qualifying rounds.

    In truth though, the relegation aspect at the bottom doesn't really retain interest for a critical mass of teams throughout a season. You see the spike when the math and the calendar sync for that make or break juncture ... but the interest for shit teams just isn't there regardless of set up. Even more so, what's the interest level for a Huddersfield or Sheffield that were relegated with 6 matches left?

    Interest, as in the manner in which you're speaking in regard to what oversized playoffs do.

    Erm, actually it makes more games more important for more teams ...

    They have 4 NFL (top flight) Championships and played in a fifth title game ... Norwhich has zero

    Losing on Thanksgiving sure ... you should actually know the number of times they've finished last in the NFL before popping off though.

    :rolleyes: says the dude that thinks it's a river ...
     
  15. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Major team sports in the British Isles:

    Football - limited playoffs below EPL
    Cricket - no playoffs
    Rugby Union England - playoffs
    Rugby Union Pro 14 (Wal/Sco/Ire) - playoffs
    Rugby League - playoffs
    Gaelic Football - playoffs
    Hurling - playoffs
    Field Hockey - playoffs
    Ice Hockey - playoffs
    Basketball - playoffs
    Shinty - no playoffs
     
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  16. kinznk

    kinznk Member

    Feb 11, 2007
    The Vitality Blast and the T100 have playoffs. Of course a true cricket fan would say T20 is not cricket. It does, however, fit my American mindset, I rather enjoy T20.
     
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  17. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    T20 is the work of Satan. No game should last for less than 3 days!!!
     
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  18. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Well exactly. Closed leagues protect perennial failures. Whereas in pro/rel leagues failing isn’t rewarded and you’re replaced. Interesting to see that in the season Ipswich won the UEFA Cup - 80/81 - four of the current Premier League - West Ham United, Watford, Newcastle United and Chelsea - were playing at the second level and two - Burnley and Brentford - at the third. You know, the level Ipswich Town are now. And, of course, Ipswich can regain their top level status based on their performances on the field of play.

    Oh, and just for Paul, three teams who played at the second level that season - Notts County, Grimsby Town and Wrexham - are now playing at the fifth level. Notts County even got promoted to the top level that season.
     
  19. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The USA and the UK are different countries with different cultures and history. American football and association football would be wildly popular in those countries independent of the format used.

    As for Notts County we are where we are because of bad owners. The likes of Peter Storrie, Ray Trew and Alan Hardy over-promised and nearly bankrupted us, betting on promotion.

    The only people that delivered promotion couldn't pay the milkman, never mind Sven Goran-Erikson, Sol Campbell and Kasper Schmeichel's £12k a week salary. That was quite the season.
     
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  20. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    B/H are being rewarded for failing ... their entire PL tenure has been failure. 9 wins each season, a 40.13 win %, and they haven't sniffed a .500 season, let alone a winning one.

    BUT, they keep getting PL monies and have three newly minted, lesser equipped clubs to play the next season which gives them a leg up in staying in the PL despite doing nothing but failing since getting there.

    Hell, even the LIONS have had a winning season in the time frame of B/H's PL existence.

    Oh, and Southampton hasn't been much better in that time frame. 41.7 win% and they ALMOST hit .500 one year. They've had a 7 win season too though so ....
     
  21. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    PPG seems a more valuable stat than winning percentage for a sport that regularly results in draws, imo
     
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  22. AlbertCamus

    AlbertCamus Member+

    Colorado Rapids
    Sep 2, 2005
    Colorado, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Where are the St. Louis Rams? At least Ipswich Town still exists (and are playing in a great league).
     
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  23. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    St Louis Rams had a bad owner, as far as the people of St Louis are concerned.

    From an LA perspective, he returned the team to its rightful home.
     
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  24. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The USA and England each have deeply rooted sporting traditions, which are generations old, for leagues which generate billions of dollars in revenue each year and are attended by hundreds of thousands of paying spectators each year and millions more viewers on various media platforms. These different traditions are broadly accepted by sports fans in each country, respectively.

    It will never not be amazing to me that some people are really, REALLY upset by this fact.
     
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  25. AlbertCamus

    AlbertCamus Member+

    Colorado Rapids
    Sep 2, 2005
    Colorado, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    And the Oakland Raiders, San Diego Chargers, etc... I'd rather know my teams exists, if in a lower league, than will puff out of existence if a city offers them a better stadium deal.
     
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