The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just looking at USLC standings, there do seem to be a lot more teams in relatively mild winter areas than there are in MLS.

    But even in places like Charleston and Tulsa it can get damn cold.
     
  2. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Depends on expansion fees going forward? If $10m becomes the standard expansion fee to enter USL's strata, then I doubt any of the current clubs would have an issue..
     
  3. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Depends on if they make it voluntary like USL did when they previously had pro/rel. I would also hope they put some requirements on the USL-1 teams before they get promoted. That way you don't have clubs going under just because they got promoted into USL-C.

    Is that true tho? No one really cares whether it is D2 or D3, but the jump from lower divisions to MLS really seems to amp up the caring of fans...
     
    M repped this.
  4. kinznk

    kinznk Member

    Feb 11, 2007
    Doesn't matter, pro/rel inspires passion, passion will bring people to the stadium regardless of the weather.

    In all seriousness, this will be very interesting. The USL-C has enough cities with other major league franchises to give the league some cache. If they could expand to some other big time markets or try a couple teams in direct competition with MLS it will be a good experiment to see how pro/rel plays out and if it will draw eyes away from MLS, in turn creating more media money and higher salaries and better players and perhaps a usurping of MLS.
     
  5. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Since my local team is already in the Championship I guess I’ll have to root for relegation in order to fully experience the magic.
     
    HailtotheKing repped this.
  6. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure, but that has nothing to do with fans thinking "Great, we're now in a league that the USSF has given D1 status" and everything to do with "We're in the league that acts and spends (mostly) like a top-level pro league does, not like AAA baseball does".
     
  7. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't see people switching from Austin FC to Austin Bold just because the Bold can get relegated.

    The MLS reserve league is more orfentic than AAA because it's copying the Premier League reserve league.
     
    HailtotheKing repped this.
  8. athletics68

    athletics68 Member+

    Dec 12, 2006
    San Diego & San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Please cite your sources on that one.

    As for competing directly with MLS... yeah good luck with that. Every time someone has tried it, they end up on the trash heap of history so far. USL needs to be smart. They've spent plenty of time and money setting up their teams geographically to the teams benefits. And now they're going to go and screw that up to be more "European"? When will this fascination with the Euro game end. This isn't Europe. We don't have the weather for the fall-spring schedule (not unless we're going to do a 4 month break mid season like Russia does) and we are not geographically limited in our team distribution like countries that have pro-rel. This league is just starting to build rivalries and such and now they're going to risk breaking that up? Sounds like a way to squash passion rather than engender it.
     
    JasonMa repped this.
  9. Darkwing McQuack

    Darkwing McQuack BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 11, 2011
    Morrisville, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #31284 Darkwing McQuack, Jul 21, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
    So what will the pro/rel zealots excuse be to not watch this time? We all know they’ll be coming up with ones. Also I can’t imagine NISA is to thrilled right now. This is basically a gut punch to them.
     
  10. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Screenshot_20210721-163209_Google.jpg
     
    CrazyJ628 and Darkwing McQuack repped this.
  11. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Probably something like the pro/rel isn’t “organic” since it’s USL only. And MLS still ruins everything because it exists.
     
    jaykoz3 repped this.
  12. Darkwing McQuack

    Darkwing McQuack BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 11, 2011
    Morrisville, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Most likely even though they supported NASL and NISA’s idea, lol.
     
  13. kinznk

    kinznk Member

    Feb 11, 2007
    I was going for some clarification in the next paragraph that started with, "In all seriousness..." which I tried to convey the previous statement wasn't serious, but rather a simplified regurgitation about how US fans have no passion because the games have all the intensity of a Sunday afternoon kickabout because there is nothing at stake in MLS games because there is no pro/rel. Im certain I could find a statement similar to this in this thread or the previous one. So, yes it's a dumb statement on my end, but not one that I believe.

    As for competing with MLS, probably not going to happen. I tried to use a bunch of ifs to convey a sense of doubt. However, as we are led to believe by people who see pro/rel as the elixir to the woes of US soccer, pro/rel will increase fan interest, that will increase income, income will allow the competition with the MLS. I know the odds of that happening are slim to none. I have been to MLS games and have seen the marketing, preparation, and money required just to get to gameday. The only thing I can see that the USL has, that could potentially help them is current major league cities: San Diego, Orange Co, San Antonio, Pittsburgh, Memphis, Miami, Tampa Bay, Oakland, Sacramento, Charlotte, Indianapolis, Phoenix, and Las Vegas. It gives the illusion of a big league. All I'm saying is that it would be an interesting experiment to see if pro/rel is really the fix all it is proposed to be.
     
    Paul Berry repped this.
  14. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The only route to pro/rel with MLS is for a handful of USL clubs to become big and successful. Let's say Indyville Legal USL are pulling in 40k a week and win the US Open Cup a few times, while Chilorado Earthamo are struggling by like a Chivas 2.0. It might benefit MLS to open a crack in the door. I do hope USL succeeds.
     
  15. What's that?
     
  16. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    It does seem a tad risky, to put it mildly. Other than some desire to be "authentic" what problem is it solving? Is there really a bottleneck where current 3rd tier teams are being held back from a 2nd tier where they'd thrive, and improve the 2nd tier?
     
    HailtotheKing, M and jaykoz3 repped this.
  17. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    feyenoordsoccerfan repped this.
  18. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    I think it’s a combination of things, namely a very crowded field where the 900lb. gorilla has entered the fray and in D3, where they really need the growth, NISA is undeniably the better value proposition (albeit a scruffy one) and MLS is going to offer more brand recognition.

    What USL has is a lot of clubs.

    They need something to maintain relevance and they are much closer than anyone to implement this, which could siphon some investor interest away from NISA and distinguish themselves from MLSD3.
     
  19. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Haven't been in a while do but figured this article would get some discussion going.

    I'm both a fan of Pro/rel and a season ticket holder for a USL-C club so I have a dog in this fight. My first thought is I am glad that someone is willing to try pro/rel in the US. But I am concerned that without the ability to promote beyond USL-C you are inviting all of the negatives without the main positive. But again glad they are willing to give it a try and hope it works.
     
    HailtotheKing, M, Roger Allaway and 2 others repped this.
  20. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think NISA is the better value proposition. USL has name recognition, relative stability, proper stadiums (except for Greenville, and a reputable organization behind it. Well worth $1 million over the first few seasons.
     
  21. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    It's $2 million, but regardless, NISA is objectively the better value proposition - no expansion fee; much lower league fees; similar travel footprint, but into major airports; and freedom to leave for a better opportunity at any point - but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the more logical choice if you're trying to use it to get a stadium or land deal from a local government.
    The problem is that if you're going that route, MLS has much more name recognition, stability and proper stadiums.

    USL1 is in exactly the place you don't want to be: competing for investors with a major brand name (which may, in fact, be cheaper) and a no-frills, budget alternative. They are stuck in a middle where they cannot compete on brand and reputation or on total cost of operation. They have to differentiate somehow because expansion runs very close to a zero-sum game. Add into it that their current crop of clubs are having to travel all over the country and playing in fairly empty stadiums, they're burning the candle at both ends. If something doesn't start changing, there will almost certainly be some turnover. I think this proposal is intended to at least goose the attendance a bit by making D3 resemble AA baseball a little less, appeal to club owners who like the ideals that NISA is espousing but are wary of its management and stability, and provide an element of the "global game" that MLS cannot possibly offer while still maintaining some of the franchise-y aspects that make American leagues attractive to owners.
     
    bigredfutbol repped this.
  22. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So there were 4 teams in NISA with any sort of reputation, one joined the USLC (and made fools of themselves) and another is on what looks like a permanent hiatus, a third has to compete with a USL club, while the fourth plays in a target MLS market.

    That's Oakland, the Cosmos, Chattanooga and Detroit.

    The simple answer to securing League One is to encourage MLS 2 (not reserve) teams to play there but neither league seems keen.

    The other is to use Championship expansion fees to subsidize it for a set number of years but there has to be a return for USLC owners.
     
    bigredfutbol repped this.
  23. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    I think you're way overselling what USL1 brings to the table. I wholeheartedly agree that it's the route you want to take if there's a real estate deal bundled into it, and there is a lot of merit to that approach, but it majorly limits your expansion options. Obviously if the sports franchise is bundled with a real estate development, USL is a better value proposition. If you're, say, a Michael Hitchcock or similarly established amateur club owner, it doesn't really offer anything that NISA doesn't, it's far more expensive, and you're intractably stuck in the system in perpetuity.

    Also, what teams in L1 have any sort of reputation? Forward Madison is about it. There will be no MLS teams in USL at all after next year.
     
    bigredfutbol repped this.
  24. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    It's arguably better than nothing, but without the ability to be promoted to the top level or relegated to the fourth, it would be similar to having the Football League with no promotion to the Premier League or relegation to the National League. Of course, the latter was the case for a long time, but the former never was.
     
  25. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Again though, what meaning is there in getting to MLS that USL can't replicate if they wanted to (aka, found investors)? The only thing that MLS has right now USL can't get is CONCACAF Champions League spots, which the vast majority of the fan base and potential fan base doesn't care about. if pro/rel is the future USL can show it, if they want to.
     

Share This Page