The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    #31251 M, Jul 16, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2021
    Isn't stopping to go and see your team because they were relegated exactly the kind of "snobbery" you are claiming doesn't exist?

    I certainly agree there's a difference in attitude to major v minor in the US than in the UK and that makes pro/rel a difficult concept for the US to adopt. For example, I doubt fans of most Championship teams consider their clubs to be "minor league" despite their currently playing at the second level. That's because the division is fluid rather than fixed and many of those clubs have played in the Premier League in recent history.
     
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  2. Probably because of the climate in western Europe soccer is 9 month ongoing and in the summer sportfans all turn their attention to the cycling events like the Giro and Tour de France.
    Team sports over here are played in the same seasons, so no succession competitions.
    The majority of people (mostly males) follow soccer/a soccer club and cycling, while others have another sport as preference to follow like field hockey (huge in the Netherlands), volley ball, baseball, basketball, handball and besides of that a soccer club at the same time. So it's not compartimented in own time of the year periods.

    That's true, the need to watch content on the time it gets put up indeed is gone.
     
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  3. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One of those USL cities is getting an MLS club ... And the two reserve sides, well the MLS is creating a new league
    Yet pro/rel leagues easily apply it as well ... Say, such as eliminating slots in the top division upon breaking away to form your own top tier league to horde more money for yourself
     
  4. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I'm not really sure what your point is.

    Swindon are appallingly run, so the teams plays very badly, and gets relegated. Where is the lack of sportingmerit in that case?

    Chievo would be a stronger case, being bumped down to Serie D without it being due to on-field results. The reality would be that the current Chievo club would cease to exist, and it would be replaced by a new company. With most Italian sides playing in municipal stadiums, this is more of an option that it might be in England, where losing a stadium would make life incredibly difficult.
     
  5. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Part of that though, at least, will be because minor league sports don't matter. Their significance is trivial, and even winning the league trophy doesn't mean a great deal.

    Similarly, I can certainly imagine DC being mid-table in a 2nd tier league, doing nothing wouldn't excite anybody. If they at the top, and were battling to get back into MLS though, it might make a difference.
     
  6. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    Doesn't Atlanta know that there's no relegation in MLS?!?!?!?! Don't they know that the results don't matter as long as they make the playoffs or secure a better draft pick????
     
  7. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    A story from Scotland that shows just how quickly fortunes can change - in both directions - in a pro/rel pyramid. Kelty Hearts are now in League Two, having been promoted from both the East of Scotland League and the Lowland League in the last three seasons. Meanwhile, the team Kelty beat in the pro/rel playoff - Brechin City - have now had three relegations in the last four seasons. So a five division swing between the two teams in only four seasons.
     
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  8. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The club being accountable to the capacity 42,517 fans who showed up yesterday, despite their team only winning twice in 13 matches.

    The second high profile "sacking" this week.
     
  9. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    If their off-field management is the same as when they appointed Frankie de Boer, they're looking in the wrong direction.
     
  10. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #31260 Paul Berry, Jul 18, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
    Regarding USL, former NASL commissioner David Downs said a healthy second division would have teams averaging between 5k and 8k attendances. It's funny how that has actually unfolded.

    So looking at the independent teams
    (*means I think they have a long-term future in the USLC).

    In 2019 exceeded 8k:
    New Mexico*
    Indy*
    Sacramento*
    Louisville*

    5k to 8k:
    Vegas*
    Nashville (MLS)
    San Antonio*
    Phoenix*
    Memphis*
    El Paso*
    Tampa*
    Hartford*
    Birmingham* (just below 5k but improving)

    Teams on the brink
    Ottawa (done for by CONCACAF)
    St Louis (usurped by MLS)
    OKC Energy
    Reno 1868 (folded or on hiatus)
    North Carolina (self relegated)
    Fresno (relocating to Monterrey Bay)

    The rest -

    Teams that have taken action:
    Colorado Springs* (new stadium is a hit)
    RGV* (have split from Houston Dynamo)
    Tulsa (rebranded)
    Charleston* (changed stadiums)

    Long termers:
    Orange County* (since 1998)
    Pittsburgh* (since 1999)

    Writing on the wall:
    Charlotte (MLS expansion city)
    Austin (MLS expansion city)

    Expansion teams:
    San Diego*
    Oakland*
    Miami
    Monterrey Bay (formerly Fresno)
    Queensboro*

    I figure 19 independent teams have a long-term future in the USL Championship (assuming no more MLS expansion).

    Some reserve teams will switch to the MLS reserve league but I foresee 2 staying in the Championship, if that's allowed, and the remainder dropping to L1 as that league needs a boost.

    Championship:
    Red Bulls
    Tacoma

    League One - 4 of
    Salt Lake
    Galaxy
    Loudon
    Atlanta
    Kansas City

    League One has 4 expansion clubs in line, so 4 reserve teams and 4 expansion teams would take the league to 20, allowing it to regionalise.
     
  11. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    The team’s performance really just gave them cover for the fact that the most popular player on the team gave an ultimatum that one of them had to go. As well multiple grievances filed from the MLSPA about training conditions.
    If they were successful, that makes this decision more difficult. If these conditions aren’t there, I highly doubt that they would have sacked him now.
     
  12. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Something something the unique wonderful stories that can only be told in "open" leagues.
     
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  13. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    This really wasn’t about their position on the table:
    https://www.foxsports.com/stories/m...gabriele-heinze-at-a-crossroads-doug-mcintyre
     
  14. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, yes and no. There were a whole lot of things going on outside their results on the field, but if they were leading the league he wouldn't have been fired. The fact that all those things were happening AND they were horrible on the field made it a "gots to go" situation.
     
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  15. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm dying to know what the reason for freezing out Josef Martinez was.
     
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  16. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I dunno but there seems to be a trend here, Altidore and Armas, Heinze and Martinez.
     
  17. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Given the latest details, it’s a little hard to predict what would happen if the results had been better. Any way you cut it, the front office was exposing themselves to massive liability. And we don’t know if he’d already been warned about his Bear Bryant crap.

    I think more to the point is that if he wasn’t a sadistic psychopath hellbent on proving he’s more valuable than the face of the franchise there’s no way the results alone would have prompted this.
     
  18. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
  19. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    So, uh, that torpedoes that.
     
  20. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Josef wants water, Josef gets water.
     
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  21. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Probably something about draft picks. I'm told that's a huge problem with American soccer.
     
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  22. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Too bad we have our structure for sports the way we do ... otherwise people in Milwaukee might have cared that the Bucks won their first title in 50years. I mean if we had pro/rel and did it single table style instead of diluting with playoffs they might have had crowds of 80K in the streets show up!

    Oh well ...
     
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  23. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #31273 Yoshou, Jul 21, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
    Welp, USL is about to usurp MLS as the number 1 American soccer league.

    With the departure of most of the MLS teams to join a new MLS lower division league, USL's recent league meetings are proposing dramatic changes to the league. The most notable of which is a switch to a Fall-Spring calendar and, of course, introduction of pro/rel between USL-C and USL-1.

     
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  24. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hmm, if I'd paid a $10 million expansion fee I wouldn't be too happy about dropping into the third division. That's one obstacle.

    The other is American winters. The minimum break would be mid-December to mid- February, and that's with southern and western teams hosting December and February matches.

    It will be interesting to see how they work it out. They do have 4 or 5 years.
     
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  25. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good. There's been a lot of talk for 20+ years about this being the key to unlock American soccer. Now somebody is going to try to do it. It will be a good experiment to see if it works or not.

    And no, the fact that the D1 league isn't doing it and USL is only a D2 league will have nothing to do with if it works or not. Nobody cares what division standing the USSF has granted the league.
     

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