The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Like I said arguably Newcastle United are 'better' run than Norwich City because at the end of the day Newcastle are a Premier League team no? Do you know why I said 'arguably'? We could start going around the dozens of arguments, however ultimately Newcastle are in the Premier League, Norwich....are not. Of course next year it could be the other way around? Alternatively in a few years time Norwich could be playing non-league football while Newcastle could be playing in Europe, only one thing is for sure - currently Newcastle United are in a position that Norwich "wish" they were in, not the other way around - exciting innit.
     
  2. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    They must be 'gutted', if they're not careful they'll end up giving away their relegation spot to Newcastle! If they must win games they better make sure they only beat the top teams in case they accidentally survive 'the drop'! Their fans would never forgive them! :-D
     
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  3. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    If they're not careful, WBA may end up with the best draft choices. The horror!
     
  4. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ask their fans.
     
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  5. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Ask 'their fans' for a balanced, un-biased opinion! :-O, are you mad!? :-D.
     
  6. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually this perfectly illustrates a flaw in the arguments of pro/rel folks. You see the failures and ineptness of many facets of the club can be overshadowed and overcome by one - on field results.

    There's a phrase in American sports: "Winning fixes everything" ... and it is notorious for it's implications and the problems that winning actually masks. SOOOO MUCH of the discussion about pro/rel centers around the "winning" and "earning by sporting merit" and "results on the field" and completely ignores or disregards the vast majority of the other aspects involved ... just like just about everyone that is in favor of it.

    Newcastle are not a better run club than Norwich. ManU aren't either. But what do Newcastle and ManU have in larger amounts than Norwich does?
     
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  8. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, knockout/playoff set ups create some crazy things! Exciting innit!

    I mean they are one of the best clubs (maybe the best) in B2 ... one point off first but have actually lost the least amount of games.
     
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  9. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I like leagues where there's some suspense as to the champion.
     
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  10. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    That's because only results matter! That's the point! Who gives a flying w*nk how much debt Newcastle are in, fans only care about them winning football matches! It's only you lot 'over there' that are obsessed by clubs 'riches'! You don't get given the Premier League trophy based on your ability to save a few quid! THE name of the game is 'winning football matches' that's why Liverpool were the best run club last season because they basically achieved their goal, who gives a sh*t how much money it cost getting there!? Football is a sport not a business on the stock exchange.
     
  11. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hold up.....Isn't there a VERY vocal set of Manchester United Supporters who are staunchly against the Glazers because of the massive amount of debt the club has???

    Remind me how Rangers supporters felt when their club was being driven into financial ruin?

    I realize that you could give less of any amount of sh!t about Leeds Supporters (being. Chelsea supporter), but I'm sure they weren't pleased that their club was driven close to oblivion either.
     
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  12. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Newcastle fans have been protesting against their owners since at least the 1970s. The only respite was when Keegan was in charge.

    They have a huge fanbase with incredible passion but they've always been run by tossers.
     
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  13. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That ship sailed when it moved from amateur to professional status
     
  14. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is the narrowest, most ignorant way of viewing things.

    I highly doubt they don't care at all about being in debt to Ashley ... especially given how he's run the club.

    I bet Bolton fans care about how much it cost ...

    ... and yes, a football club is a business. It's just that it plies its trade in sport.
     
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  15. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Surely non-league Hereford beating First Division Newcastle in 1972, or non-league Yeovil defeating money-bags Sunderland in 1949, is evidence that an open system of promotion and relegation is a pre-requisite to FA Cup surprises. While Hereford were semi-pro and were elected to the Football League the following season, reaching the Second Division within 5 years, Yeovil were total amateurs.
     
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  16. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep. Based on his logic Portsmouth we're the 8th best run team in 2007-08 and 84th best run team in 2014-15.

    I think finishing 16th in League Two in 2014-15 may have had something to do with the way they were run when they finished 8th in the Premier League 7 years earlier. That's just one of many examples.
     
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  17. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    I don't think Yeovil were amateurs, although they probably weren't paid much. At the time they played in the semi-pro Southern League and had Alex Stock as their player-manager. They didn't play in the Isthmian League until 1985, well after that ceased being an amateur league.
     
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  18. DanGerman

    DanGerman Member+

    Aug 28, 2014
    New York City
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You also forgot when they also started to list themselves on the london stock exchange. I mean you could literally buy stock in some prem clubs.
     
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  19. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Rep because I don’t get to read “tossers” as often as I should.
     
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  20. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Wasn’t the beef with ManU and Rangers that the debt had nothing to do with the club? Wasn’t it like a private equity leveraged debt or whatever?
     
  21. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tosser
     
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  22. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That was cheap, but OK.
     
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  23. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Rangers were liquidated because of a contrived scheme to avoid paying tax known as employee benefit trusts. They went into Administration (chapter 11 to USers) but the tax authority (HMRC) refused to accept the paltry amount on offer. The club were then liquidated.
     
  24. Afaik there's no club with Chelsea players.
     
  25. Chesco United

    Chesco United Member+

    Jun 24, 2001
    Chester County, PA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We Americans have to care about a club's business because so many clubs (including recently Reno 1868) have gone out of business.
     
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