Of course they're comparable. They beat several teams from higher leagues to get to the fourth round. If more teams competed they'd possibly have to beat more teams. NISA Nation might increase the number of teams capable of taking part as those teams will play a full season.
Considering the competition is set up to have this happen as much as possible, it's not the feat you're trying to make it out to be. I'll do you one better ... when was the last time an amateur side knocked off a top tier side in the FA CUP? I ask because it's happened in the last decade here in the USOC, sans pro/rel. This team played a 3 game group stage to qualify, then defeated the defending champions of the second division (which had defacto moved to 3rd with the advent of NASL), a third division club, and then an MLS Club. One could argue that it is good prudent judgement not to chase free agents and continuously compete for high priced stars and try to build though the draft over the course of a few years in order to build a strong corps of players. COMPARABLE: (of a person or thing) able to be likened to another; similar.
I know, so apparently Sheffield United WANT to get relegated! I've never heard such bollox! :-D Absolute tosh of the highest order lol
No the argument is that Sheff U are gaming the system in a similar way of north american sports by not buying for their level and just accepting that they're a championship level squad and just going through the motions. Once they're in the championship they don't need to spend much to just go back up. They definitely are tanking just look at their transfers this season.
You know what, you're full of crap. You gave a specific example of an 8th level team that played 7 games in order to get the right to play a top level team, and then claimed it was due to pro/rel and couldn't happen here. When I pointed out it was because there aren't enough teams here you doubled-down. I then showed you an example of a team playing the maximum 6 rounds to play a top level team and you claimed something about using a specific example. Then you tried to move the goalposts to claim you were talking about other teams, teams that don't have to play 7 games in order to play a top team, they have to play 4 or 5. You like to go on about how pro/rel "haters" argue in bad faith but you do the same thing. Get back to me when you really want to discuss this and you'll admit you were wrong (something I have done more than once in this thread, though maybe not as often as I should). Otherwise you're just as bad as the people you like to rail against.
You know, you're full of crap. I have persistently pointed out that almost every season multiple teams from level 5 and below reach the third round. Do you see that bolded text? Do you also understand what multiple teams almost every season means? Do you understand that there was nothing unique about Marine other than the 160 place differential caused by them having drawn a team at the top of the Premier League rather than a team lower down the pyramid? Get back to me when you admit you were wrong about Marine being a unique example and admit you were wrong. Thx.
And the underlying point is that in a pro/rel pyramid there is a price of failure. In US closed leagues failure is actively rewarded with no change of league status, better draft choices and (in the NFL) an easier schedule the following season. I see someone is now droning on about amateur teams in the FA Cup, seemingly oblvious to the fact that amateur status was abolished almost half a century ago. Of course, there is a formerly amateur team - Wycombe Wanderers - that since that abolition has both clawed its way up the pyramid to the Championship and reached the semifinal of the FA Cup. That's one of the beauties of pro/rel - all this has been achieved through their performances on the field of play - Isthmian League to Championship. Remarkable.
Multiple sources list Yeading-Newcastle in 2005 as the biggest gap in a FA Cup tie before this weekend. That was a 7th level team against an EPL team, and a team that had to play 6 matches to get to the 3rd round to play a EPL team. So yes, an 8th level team winning 7 matches to play a EPL team in the 3rd round of the FA Cup, the EXACT example you gave, is a unique example. It had literally never happened before in 150 years.
Should have been a doddle for Huddersfield Town and Sunderland to be re-promoted then. Oh wait... More generally, I see only two of the nine teams relegated in 16-17, 17-18 and 18-19 have been re-promoted since. Two are now in League One.
So you're still fixated that Marine happened to be drawn against a team in the Premier League and ignoring teams at a low level of the pyramid getting to the third round and getting drawn against a team lower down the pyramid. That despite the fact that I've posted multiple times, in response to the predictable "whataboutism", that teams from the fifth level and lower get to the third round almost every season.
You're asking if I'm still fixated on the claim you made that something like Marine couldn't happen in the U.S.? Yes, because that's the claim we're discussing. You want to talk about 5th level teams making it every year I'll point out that 5th level teams only need to win 3 games, not 7, to make it to a 3rd round matchup with a EPL team (because 5th level teams enter in the 4th qualifying round, while 8th level teams enter in the extra preliminary qualifying round). That's a far cry from your claim that only a pro/rel system could allow a team to win 7 (not 3) games. Which was the specific claim I responded that started this sub-thread. I'll also point out that for the last 4 years of the USOC a team has won 6 games in order to make it it a MLS matchup, and prior to that there weren't enough teams to justify that many rounds. So yeah, tell me again how only a pro/rel system could allow a team to win 7 rounds in order to play a top level team (something that had never happened in the English pro/rel system before this year) and how a team winning 6 games to face a top-level team in the USOC proves it can't happen in a pro/rel system, but a team winning 3 games in England shows how it can only happen in a pro/rel system
Ok, so you're merely continuing the dishonesty that there is something different about being drawn in the third round against a top level team, than getting to the third round and being drawn against a team lower down the pyramid. And ignoring the fact that in most years multiple team from the fifth level and lower reached the third round. Would Marine's accomplishment have been somehow different if, say, they;d been drawn against Newport County in the third round?
Ok, name the other 8th level team to play an EPL team in the FA Cup. Explain how this being the biggest mismatch (by difference in places between the clubs) in FA Cup history (149yrs) isn't unique. KTHX There are prices for failure in US sports, you just don't feel they're on par with those in relegation having leagues. That's fine, but that doesn't mean that consequences of failure don't exist. Oh, and relegated clubs get an easier schedule too guy (and in the case of PREM failures they get a significant payout the clubs that make up that easier schedule aren't getting). Ah yes, spinning the semantics when it suits you. Sure, by definition the dregs of English football are "semi-pro" ... but that really doesn't mean much when clubs like Marine FC aren't any more "pro" than many of the NCAA soccer teams here in the States. All England did was abolish the distinction between amateur and professional ... the English C team is amateur, a rose by any other name is still a rose. Or in this case, just because you don't call an amateur level player as such doesn't mean he's actually not one. Though, what designation do the Sunday League players have (he asks already knowing the answer)? Also, what's this: http://www.southernamateurleague.co.uk/ See, they didn't abolish amateurism ... they just separated it completely from the league system. In America though, those Sunday League/Amateur players can still play in the Open Cup, exciting innit! It wouldn't have been history making ... so yeah, a bit different.
"Formed in 1979 as the England Non-League team, it features players who play for clubs outside the Premier League and English Football League. Currently, the majority of selected players are full-time professionals with National League clubs." Moral of story - always take the normal culprit's posts with a pinch of salt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_national_football_C_team The FA Cup has 889 entrants this season from levels 1 to 10 this season, with 737 accepted. Given the abolition of amateur status, they are all "teams".
Gee, where could have I gotten the idea that was basis of the claim we're discussing (that pro/rel allows that when a closed system does not): Oh, right. SMH
SMH. I mentioned Marine because yesterday was the day they played their third round game. When I got the "whataboutism" responses from you and one other poster, I pointed out that there was nothing unique about Marine's achievement beyond their being drawn against a team at the top of the Premier League, and that multiple teams from level 5 and below get to the third round most seasons. So I'll ask you again, would Marine's accomplishment have been any different had they been drawn against, say, Newport County? And what is it about "multiple teams, most seasons" that you are not grasping?
Newtown Pride qualified for last year's Open Cup but winning the USASA National Amateur Cup, so by the time they got to play a MLS team they would have played more than 8 games. I guess that could happen once every 150 years.
Huddersfield and Sunderland took a totally different approach. Huddersfield fired their manager, Sunderland went more than $200 million in debt. In the Burnley/Norwich/Sheffield United model, you retain the manager that got you into the Premier League and you avoid spending a ton of money in a desperate attempt to stay in the top-flight. I'll be really surprised if Chris Wilder gets fired this season.
In other words, you spend within your means. Hardly "tanking". Sunderland took mismanagement to new levels of off-field craziness, as has been discussed on this thread before. I see they were recently sold again, this time to a 23 year old French heir to the Louis Dreyfus Corporation.
And always know that this particular poster is the epitome of 'ignorant to fit his needs' England C plays against U2321/20 squads as well as the likes the Irish AMATEUR side. He also clipped the 'semi-pro' designation which is easily seen on the link he provided. Levels 7-10 are as professional as the Western Michigan Broncos are ... If that. Notice the ignoring of the rest of the post dealing with amateur football in England, a status allegedly abolished. And you were shown the equivalent in our system happening regularly too, even to the point of them bearing top tier clubs. THE LEVEL OF PLAYER IN THE RESPECTIVE SET UPS. Pro/rel not needed to create the 'magic'
Here's the most recent England C squad I could find: https://www.thenonleaguefootballpap...and-c-squad-announced-ahead-of-wales-c-clash/ Like most National League sides, Hartlepool, Barnet, Barrow (now promoted to the Football League), Boreham Wood, Chesterfield and Harrogate (now promoted to the Football League) are fully professional. AFC Fylde were fully professional last season at the time this squad was announced. I am not sure about Sutton United, but they are at least semi professional. Gateshead got relegated due to financial regularities so I presume they are now semi- professional. Ditto Oxford City. Kidderminster Harriers remained fully professional after their relegation from the Football League but given they've been relegated one more level, they may be semi-pro now. So out of a 16 person squad, at least 12 and maybe 14 of that squad of 16 are fully professional with the rest semi professional. Amateurs they are not, even leaving aside that such a designation for players was abolished almost half a century ago. In fact, England hasn't had an amateur national side since 1974.
Avg non league salary is 6-700 sterling a week ... Some more and some less. That's plenty of folks needing another job to have a loving wage. I went over the 'abolishment' of amateur designation for clubs in the league designated clubs. Simply refusing to call them by a nomenclature doesn't remove the reality of their position. Swmi-peo literally means not fully professional. Again, you're hiding behind technicalities and being ignorant of the truth on purpose.