The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. DanGerman

    DanGerman Member+

    Aug 28, 2014
    New York City
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But we don't have the luxury of having the most dominant and popular sport in the land. So you fans that come to games dictate where the top clubs go in recent times. In england your team gets relegated you're probably going to keep watching and going to games. In New York if my team gets relegated,I'll just switch over to the Yankees, Mets, Rangers, Knicks or islanders....
     
  2. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    And I guess those of us not in NYC just can pound sand, then. I mean, after all, you got yours!
     
  3. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or you can do what football fans, baseball fans, basketball fans and hockey fans do, which is to find a team you enjoy watching that's not literally in your back yard.
     
    HailtotheKing repped this.
  4. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I'm not being funny but to me that just seems odd! This is what I mean about the differences between 'over there' and 'over here', to us the league champion is the best team, proven by performance on the field, over 38 games you can't argue the fact, however in one off games like the cup games for example in the odd occasion an obviously inferior team can scrape a win.
     
  5. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    Elite or local. If I have to watch on broadcast/streaming, why not watch the best instead of guys who are just going to make it harder for my national team to qualify...
     
  6. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    It's also a short view of history. Our "national pastime" featured a 7 game serios between 2 different league champions from 1903-1969. College football existed with the champions being "crowned" as the result of polls through the 20th century, professional football a single table champion early on, then 1 game between division winners. Even post merger of leagues, it was originally 3 conference winners and one wildcard, leading to a 3 game postseason.

    Hockey has always had 2/3rds of it's team's qualify for the post season, but when it was a 6 team league that was still a tidy 2 round affair. It's probably the sport most similar to MLS in that while it had 2/3rds of the teams in the US, most of the players were from elsewhere in North America and few people cared outside of the cities that actually participated.

    Sure, we can say "well, more eyeballs exist in the desired demographiscs that grew up with the current extended playoff world to keep casuals on the hook landscape" so let's cater to them, and I get that all sports are a business. Yet our favorite sport seems to not be reaping the rewards the other big 4 are....

    It's a shame MLS hasn't been able to hook into the "fantasy" sports thing like the NFL. Getting Joe Boxwine in the Cleveland suburbs to suddenly care every week what the Denver Broncos team defense does, and the running back for the Atlanta Falcons, and having 24/7 highlights on ESPN, is like the 2nd greatest trick the devil played after convincing people he didn't exist :)

    Elite or local. When provided with neither, and it's easy to find the first, don't be shocked that's what people do....
     
  7. DanGerman

    DanGerman Member+

    Aug 28, 2014
    New York City
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No but you DO have options if you're not in a major city. College for instance has probably got you covered. My gist is that here in the united States stable entrenched soccer is a new thing a VERY new thing and all the other sports leagues (Which professional soccer leagues compete with for fans attention and money) have a monstrous head start in terms of money, tradition, and cultural significance. Pro/rel won't help change that fact, you need to exist for a long time to combat that advantage and pro soccer here isn't there yet.
     
  8. So that's your definition of a "fan".
    In my book that's a theater goer.
     
  9. DanGerman

    DanGerman Member+

    Aug 28, 2014
    New York City
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's all theater, hardcore fans want to tell you otherwise but if feyenoord had the success of say Sparta would you be as engaged? Now say there are 4 other sports that you like as much as soccer and they have successful and fun to watch games. You can't see why a fan may just switch off and watch something else until his or her soccer team "sorts it out"?
     
    HailtotheKing and jaykoz3 repped this.
  10. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You forgot "Soccer" fans in this........a lot of soccer fans choose to watch teams from other parts of the World.
    There's pluses and minuses to both ways.

    On the one hand, being the most consistent team over a lengthy season shows a teams excellence. Excellence in all facets: roster construction, coaching, scouting, health, performance, depth, etc.

    There's also merit in a team's ability to "step up" and perform in a do or die, win or go home, winner take all playoff format. This shows excellence in health (short turn around), scouting & preparation (don't know next opponent ahead of time), coaching/game planning, depth, etc.

    We like to one about "playing for better draft choices" yet that isn't what teams are doing. Outside of MLB and the NBA pro athletes are paid based off of on field performance. Draft picks are a mechanism to help with the illusion of league parity. Seriously, if draft picks are the be all end all....the Sabres, Knicks, Oilers, Bengals, Lions, Jets, WFT, Timberwolves, Hornets. etc. wouldn't be consistently terrible for the last 10-20 years (longer in the case of the Lions, Jets, & Knicks).
     
  11. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did you watch the game? New England didn't look like an obviously inferior team to me, and I'm a Union fan. New England beat us in every way. They deserved the win.
     
    HailtotheKing repped this.
  12. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    So, minor leagues again. I’ll concede that I’m exceptional, with regards to the fact that I don’t care about football, baseball, basketball, or hockey- but there are plenty of people in this country that only care about one or two sports.
    There’s a very “let them eat cake” vibe going on from those that live within a bounty of sporting riches.
     
  13. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    You could equally argue that had to do with Philadelphia being idle for too long vs. the Revs playing.
    I would say it’s a combination of a lot of things.
     
  14. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    I agree “playing for draft picks” is pretty isolated to basketball and baseball. I think football is only immune to it due to a few things outside the owner/GM’s control: the small number of games; the shortness of player careers; but mostly that with so many players involved in a game, bad teams are just bad with no coordination necessary from the front office.
    You still see teams that have given up come December, though. It’s not a given that they’d continue to fight under threat of having to play the Northern Kentucky River Monsters next season but my guess is that the FO wouldn’t be complacent about it.

    On the other hand, playoffs are fine. Crown your champion however you think will bring the most entertainment to your fans.
     
  15. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Following up on this, the concern about tanking is that it’s the FO equivalent of diving: it’s a wholly unethical means of trying to gain advantage. The problem is that with diving, there are penalties for getting caught whereas there is basically no disincentive for tanking and, in fact, it may be even easier to not even actively tank. Simply showing up every season may yield the best ROI for a major league franchise owner (which may also explain why you don’t see it in football).
     
  16. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Union did look flat, and that has to have been a factor, but I don't know that it was enough of a factor to justify labeling the Revs as an "obviously inferior" team.
     
  17. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well the vast majority of Manchester United and Chelsea fans are theater goers. Even a lot locals don't physically go and watch as most of the seats are taken by season ticket holders.
     
    HailtotheKing and Chesco United repped this.
  18. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    I don’t think you can discount Bruce Arena in a playoff game, either.
     
    HailtotheKing and Roger Allaway repped this.
  19. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I saw a struggling second division Chelsea beat a European Champion Liverpool once, for 90 minutes Liverpool absolutely bombarded our goal, hit the post God knows how many times, Chelsea keeper (Peter Barota I think) made save after save with his hands, feet, head, ears, backside, whatever, they must have had the ball for 88 of the 90 minutes..........and yet a flukey goal on the break won it for the blues - now if Chelsea were declared as the Champions, and therefore best team in the country based on that one game it would have been an absolute travesty! If that game had been played a hundred times Liverpool would have probably won 99 of them! After all league games were played that year both clubs final standings were so very obviously a MUCH truer reflection of which team was the better team. :-D.
     
  20. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    That's not true.
     
  21. kinznk

    kinznk Member

    Feb 11, 2007
    I show up to Thansgiving and my dad, who is not a huge soccer fan, is wearing a Crawley Town Red Devils t shirt. He started watching EPL this year when my son invited him to play EPL fantasy league. He scanned all the leagues and decided Crawley Town had the best name. No point to this story, just a Crawley Town shirt.
     
  22. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Clearly a man of distinction and taste :D
     
  23. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Crawley is where I'm now living, the club could do with whatever support it can get! Because it's a 'new town' developed after the last war to help re-house displaced Londoners it means most brought their London club allegiances with them. It's actually one of the smallest clubs in the pro leagues, small stadium (good atmosphere though), I have attended a few games myself but because I originate from the outskirts of London my true allegiance lies elsewhere.
     
    M and Chesco United repped this.
  24. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's also a very entitled vibe among certain advocates.

    It took a century to develop there but we want it now!!

    It took half a century to develop here but we want it now!!

    We want other people to bear the burden and take the financial risks but we'll complain when they make a profit.

    And all because: England!
     
    HailtotheKing, JasonMa, jaykoz3 and 2 others repped this.
  25.  
    HailtotheKing repped this.

Share This Page