Meh, weather it be MLS, USL, or NISA it’s still more entertaining to watch because any given team can win in those leagues. Can’t say the same about the euro leagues you guys idealize.
I'm sorry but pre Covid the English league was functioning fine, if clubs want to spend beyond their means it's their choice, I'm sick to death of clubs moaning my about their financial issues, it's up to EVERY one of the hundreds of football clubs in this country to be responsible for their own running, if a club folds there are PLENTY of BETTER run clubs ready to replace them. Covid is obviously a different matter, that's a spanner in the works that has nothing to do with pro/rel..................FFS.
All the structural problems were there before Covid-19. And there you go again blaming "the clubs" when the perpetrators are often long gone by the time the manure strikes the blower.
Can't afford it? Then don't buy it, it's perfectly simple, like I said there are PLENTY of better run clubs that can replace you! That's the beauty of pro/rel you see, that's exactly how it works. EVERY club wants to climb the league ladder, to do this you simply have to win football matches, winning football matches is HARD because there are hundreds of rival clubs trying to do the exact same thing, as a club if you want to 'push your luck' and in trying to win you over spend then as a club that's down to you, but don't complain if you over stretch YOUR resources and it then goes tits up. There are hundreds of (perhaps better run) clubs that will happily replace you - there it's simple really. The problems that Covid has caused is obviously different though - in this case it's not the clubs fault - this however has got NOTHING to do with pro/rel.
We have provided evidence ... you and all the others in this thread that sit on the p/r side simply wave it off. Bolton is a classic example of living beyond your means and the situation a club can find itself in should they simply "win some games" in the system. Though, are you saying that winning games and being promoted is being stupid? Even clubs that are smart with their money/run well face COSTS of being promoted and relegated that are inherent to the "results on the field" A rule, no. A fact of the system? In top pro/rel countries it pretty much is. You want to talk realism but y'all talk about "just winning games" when IN REALITY it's so much more than that. Yes, having a banker or credit agency or some other money rep sell the name as they see fit. That's so much better and makes so much more sense than say, the league that at least has actual connection and relevance to the club ... LOL you whine about suits all the time but have no issue with suits controlling something like this. Absolute horseshit. In ANY competition format, in any given year, ONLY the teams IN THE COMPETITION can win it. NO SHIT SHERLOCK. ONLY teams in the EPL can win it this year. Not anyone in the Championship, L1 or L2 ... ONLY EPL teams. Except non of that is true. AccStanley's owner has been very vocal about how broken it is for quite a while. The p/r system is synergistic with these choices. The system IS SET UP TO and HELPS CREATE these situations for clubs. The simple act of being promoted brings upon more costs for the club. A LITERAL QUOTE FROM A LOWER LEAGUE OWNER IN ENGLAND: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08...lish-football-league-after-125-years/11455758 "Andy Holt, chairman of League 1's Accrington Stanley, blames the system for the problems facing English football. "This situation has been allowed to develop," Mr Holt said. "We have known clubs were getting deeper in debt for years. Combined debt in the Championship is 1 billion pounds. The real problem isn't owners like [Bury owner] Steve Dale; it's the system. It encourages clubs to stretch themselves. I want to make Accrington a decent club that will be around forever but, the way things are, the logical thing is to gamble. "It's not a coincidence that all these owners in the EFL have all gone bad at the same time — it's the system. Do go on and tell me I'm full of shit when I say the system creates, helps, encourages, is synergistic in these issues ... please, tell Andy Holt he's full of shit about the system. It isn't just "Americans" making shit up about it. And no there AREN'T PLENTY of better run clubs out there because they're all in the same system that helps create and force these situations. I mean, you're sick to death of clubs moaning eh? Sounds like there's plenty of 'em in the same boat, not better run.
Both discussions I referred to were pre-COVID. If enough clubs are moaning about it that you're sick to death of it, that's a pretty good indication that something's broken. I've provided actual data about how broken it is. Show me something other than your own belief that its not.
And those better draft choice games are so so gripping! Three Premier League champions have been promoted to/relegated from the league. Also, remind me of the last time the NY Jets, Arizona Cardinals and Detroit Lions won the Superbowl...
Just a gripping as seeing a team win the championship with 2 months left in the season. Also the Premier League only has crowned 7 champions in its near 30 year existence. Remind me the last time Tottenham, Everton, Aston Villa won the Premiership. I can do this too, lol. You can watch your lame and boring euro leagues I’ll stick with the more fun and entertaining American ones.
When you have a "lame and boring" regular season with half+ of teams qualifying for the playoffs, it's easy to claim that things are more exciting later in the season. Of course, there's a price to pay for that... My point was that without pro/rel how would those teams have won the league? You could argue that Man City would have been members of a closed league, but the other two? Not so much. Also, your fixation with just the teams in the major league is both predictable and limited. The beauty of pro/rel is that teams can and do rise and fall up/down a pyramid of leagues based on their own abilities on the field of play. With a closed league, its all about getting your cartel membership fee accepted.
100+ years of it working perfectly, is that enough for you? How about getting back to me when the English league pyramid stops working? Like I said clubs & club owners can do what they like with their club, don't expect any 'other' clubs giving sympathy if they over reach with their spending though! That's the gamble, that's EXACTLY how peo/rel is supposed to work, it's called competition, its what has turned English football into the world's premier sports League.
In other words, you have nothing but your belief. We have provided literal quotes of club owners and managers saying the system is broken. You have provided...nothing. Again. The English pyramid is fundamentally broken and COVID has only hastened its collapse. I do not blame pro/rel for breaking it, but I do blame pro/rel for not fixing it and arguably exacerbating the problems. There's no reason a club should have to decide between not competing for promotion or going for it but knowing that if they fail its almost certain relegation the following year (exact scenario told to me by a club President 18 months ago). Again, pro/rel isn't the cause of it, but your statement that the EFL is fine is laughable on its face, as anyone who's actually bothered to look at the current state of the EFL could tell you.
I have 100+ YEARS of the English league working perfectly, 100 years is NOT 'nothing'. If Bolton couldn't afford JJ Okocha they shouldn't have bought JJ Okocha! Don't expect 'other clubs' to be sympathetic to them. It's ALWAYS been that way. It's called COMPETITION, it's tough, it's what's made the English league so dramatic, so exciting, it brings incredible highs and incredible lows, one feeds off the other and people LOVE it, it's what sport should be. I don't remember much sympathy for MY club in 1982 when it was hours away from folding, Fast forward 30 years and we were European Champions. Exciting innit.
Accrington Stanley owner: You know, he's on Twitter and responds to people. I'm sure he'd like to hear your opinion that everything is fine.. Why don't you tweet him with what you just said to me?
He shouldn't 'overspend' then should he! Nobody forced Bolton Wanderers to buy JJ Okocha, if they couldn't afford JJ Okocha then perhaps they should have left him alone, it's not rocket science. At the end of the day pro/rel means that 3 clubs WILL get promoted to a higher level, they WILL then generate more money too, alternatively three clubs WILL get relegated to a lower level and then generate less revenue. How these clubs get there (if they ever do) is down to them, the state of their bank balance doesn't come into it, the amount of points gained over a season is all that counts. It's 'tough' out there for sure but it certainly makes it very exciting and dramatic. It's worked for 100+ years and it's still working today. I suggest that anybody that buys a football club as a money making scheme are in the wrong business!
You act like football clubs are sentient beings. Bolton Wanderers did not overspend, Burnden Leisure overspent, and it was Burnden Leisure that went into liquidation, not Bolton Wanderers. Liverpool FC is owned by Liverpool Football Club and Athletic Grounds, not Liverpool FC. The biggest victims of Bolton's demise are their 20k+ fans who had no say in how the owners of the club spent their money.
Yeah, just warp what someone really tells to get your point that doesnot exist. Blaming the system (P/R) for the actions of club managers is like blaming capitalism for the greed of criminal business owners.
He's talked about spending limits and salary caps, but his main solution is to break the money up in the pyramid more equitably. Right now in his opinion (one I largely agree with) the available money in English football is more and more going to just EPL clubs, and even inside that going to the big 6 or so clubs.
Your button is stuck. Somehow you think that Bolton's overpaying of a player is the only problem the EFL has. Here's Andy Holt's Twitter. Tell him and let us know what he says. He can actually change things the way you believe he should, we can't. https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt
The Germans have a system in place that gives them a majority voice. Anyway, in Spain the fans of the top clubs decide who runs the club, not some Yankee/Asian investor.
Hard to disagree with most of that. Clearly the expanded CL has cemented the top of the league. I've long thought the one thing that could usefully be exported from US leagues is a salary cap.
Aren't League One and Two talking about one? I know certain people on this thread seem to just dismiss his comments, and he certainly has a bit of an ego that leaves him a bit blind to a few things (but who isn't) but in general I find Holt's honesty on social media about the financial realities of Accrington Stanley and the EFL in general very revealing. A reckoning is coming for the English pyramid and I'm not sure those at the top really realize it.