The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    He can hate the team and the league all he wants. Doesn't change any fact in Paul Berry's post.
     
  2. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I checked and he is still following Vancouver Whitecaps on Twitter, as is someone claiming to be Cristiano Ronaldo, Robert Carlyle and Ryan Reynolds.
     
  3. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Most Whitecaps fans would agree that Davies was already exceptional when he joined Vancouver, one of a kind for sure but that was done at Edmonton, not over the course of 11 games in USL. (Since you were talking "academy" and not "first team" that's why I mentioned this.)

    The first team gave him the stage for sure, not denying that.

    Why would I like a team who was hiding sexual abuse within it's organization and tried to bully Davies in giving up his transfer bonus to the team? No wonder that there's been mass season ticket cancellations and "sell the Caps" was trending nationwide.

    I don't hate MLS at all, I followed it from 2012 to 2016 religiously. I have my reasons on why my interest in the league went down overtime but not to the point of hating the league.

    Actually, the most of my criticism is aimed at the 3 Canadian teams more so than the league in general
     
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  4. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To the Whitecaps' credit I believe they passed on some of the transfer fee to his Edmonton youth club. Am I correct?
     
  5. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I didn't check myself so thanks for the update. However this did happen and it's not just me not liking the Caps but their own fanbase, yes the Whitecaps are a joke

    How Alphonso Davies' move to Bayern Munich almost fell through
    https://onefootball.com/en/news/how...to-bayern-munich-almost-fell-through-30027280

    But when it came down to the final negotiations, his club Vancouver Whitecaps got greedy and almost threw a spnner into the works.

    Bayern had negotiated a transfer fee of €11.3m with the Whitecaps but by the rules of the MLS CBA, 10% of the transfer fee of any player being transferred outside the league is to be given to the player.

    The Whitecaps were having none of that.

    “It’s unfortunate, because the club shows Phonzie a lot of love publicly and on social-media — which is great — but when it came to showing him some real love for all the hard work he did, they fell short,” he said.

    “It was disappointing when Alphonso was asked to waive the 10 per cent that he was entitled to or the Bayern deal wouldn’t have happened. The Bayern guys, you’re dealing with people who know the ins (and outs).


     
  6. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    I didn't say anything about you liking or disliking MLS, so I'm not sure what you're on about.
     
  7. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    They had no choice as per the CSA who endorse and could enforce solidarity payments as the 3 MLS clubs are sanctioned by the CSA.

    Knowing them, they would have kept the whole thing if they could
     
  8. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    See below
     
  9. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    The "he" referred to Davies. Apologies for the confusion if English is not your first language or something.
     
  10. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    French is my 1st language, apologies for misunderstanding. I'm from Quebec initially so I give Montreal Impact the hardest time knowing that organization inside out
     
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  11. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    :rolleyes:

    Roll your eyes and ignore them. See above if need demonstration

    Because that's not what we were talking about. And again I wasn't making blanket generic statements about MLS. I was referencing a specific thing that MLS has done.

    But fine I guess I will address your two specific compaints

    First I am not sure what the Premier League's system of sending down the pyramid has to do with anything that we are talking about here? You'll have to explain to me how that relates to the integrity of the league, and the perception that the league is stepping in to benefit certain markets and clubs over others to expand the league as a whole.

    As for the Mexican League, I never really followed the Mexican league until Xolos got promoted. Since then been trying to follow it closer but the reality is the league and the club hasn't stuck like I thought it would. I still love going to games at Caliente but I'm not excited to watch them on TV or anxiously waiting for the next Podcast to drop.

    As always I can't point to one thing instead there are a variety of different importance. Probably the biggest is the ownership hasn't been able to keep the best players/coaches at the club. There have been two periods of success followed by players and coaches leaving for more money and fame at the big mainland Mex clubs.

    This also is connected to some issues about governance in the Mexican league that seems a tad bit "shady". Rules seem to be written and then ignored when influential people don't like the outcome. Which sounds familiar and guess what, I do believe that's impacted my interest in the league. Happy?

    Now why don't I go on and on about it? Because I don't care about the Mexican league particularly. I do care about MLS I want MLS to succeed so it pisses me off when they do stuff that I think is wrong and set's them back.

    The same way you change any perception by doing the right things over time.

    You aren't talking directly to things. We were talking about a specific topic and you brought in completely unrelated concepts and when I pointed out that doesn't relate to me you went with the "they" card.

    Address the perceptions with facts and positivity, rather than whining and whataaboutism.

    Also by putting MLS clubs in as many markets as possible. Give people a way to interact through MLS through a club.

    Which for me is the number 1 reason for pro/rel.
     
  12. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    So "it's not just MLS deciding to screw Yedlin's youth club. It's USSF enabling it".

    This would be one of those things that would get the open pyramid people to reconsider their opinion...
     
  13. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS did not screw Yedlin's youth club.

    US Soccer messed up his soccer passport and Tottenham refused to pay.
     
  14. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    No. The passport was fine, Crossfire was entitled to the payment. US Soccer AND MLS messed up in telling Tottenham they didn't need to set aside the money.

    https://www.espn.com/soccer/major-l...panel-releases-detailed-ruling-in-yedlin-case


    "In its ruling, a copy of which was obtained by ESPN FC, the DRC stated that Redmond, Washington-based Crossfire Premier was actually entitled to receive solidarity payments from the transfer. This by itself could have far-reaching implications in terms of similar claims by U.S. youth clubs. Crossfire had been seeking around $100,000 for its share of the fee based on the Yedlin's time with the youth club from 2006-10. The DRC also denied contentions from Tottenham that Yedlin's player passport -- which proved that the player had played for Crossfire -- was incomplete, or that Crossfire's business model prevented it from receiving solidarity payments.

    But the DRC ultimately rejected Crossfire's claim against Tottenham on the grounds that Spurs had already paid the full amount of the transfer fee -- reported to be $4 million -- to MLS. The DRC added that guidance from the U.S. Soccer Federation and MLS indicated to Spurs that they didn't need to set aside part of the fee as a solidarity payment. The DRC ultimately decided that since Tottenham acted in good faith, it wouldn't be required to pay the solidarity fee to Crossfire on top of what it had already paid to MLS."
     
  15. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Got it!

    Though tbh I'm not sure that p2p academies should receive solidarity payments as they have already made a tidy profit from coaching the player.

    It would be different if they were a youth club or grass roots soccer team.
     
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  16. I saw the Philadelfia Union playing against NYC with names of black Americans killed by police on their shirt in stead of their own name.
     
  17. These arenot the top teams I guess. Not very attractive football.
    Last minute miss for the equalizer.
     
  18. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    People follow the league their team is in, not the league they were in or aspire to be in.

    I don't have a clue what's happening in League One or League Two even though my team has spent 24 out of the last 25 seasons in them. I only care about the National League.
     
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  19. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was 38 degrees Celsius taking into account the humidity.

    Plus it's both teams first game in 4 months.

    And this is the wrong thread.
     
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  20. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Two things to point out. First at the moment the US is different than England in that there is no unifying pyramid, so you have these different leagues and clubs often in outright conflict with each other. You have some supporters who actually want MLS to fail because they think that would create oxygen for their club's league to thrive (not saying that this position is good). So at the very least you would help in getting everyone pulling in the same direction almost by co-opting all of these clubs and groups by bringing into the system. (the whole pissing out vs pissing in analogy).

    Secondly when I say MLS I should be specific that I am imagining my version of pro/rel which is more the MLS2 model. Where you still have clubs applying for expansion spots, which would need to be approved by MLS, but they are getting spots in a 2nd (or 3rd if enough demand) division. So when I say MLS I mean any of the linked levels what ever we call them.

    Basically my overall thesis is having thriving local clubs in as many markets as possible is the best way to expand football in the country, and I think Pro/rel makes that easier.
     
  21. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Two things:

    1) It was hot and humid enough to require two hydration breaks in the second half.
    2) This is the equivalent of early preseason for everyone. It was the first match in four months for both teams. No one was able to play friendlies before this tournament, and even full team training was only permitted two weeks ago. Teams haven't even had that long to train, because they had to cease training while final pre-travel tests were pending and players were confined to hotel rooms upon arrival until cleared to resume training.
     
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  22. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The people who want MLS to fail will continue to want MLS to fail because they hold it up against some fantasy they've been sold of what soccer should be.

    USL fans in general don't dislike MLS, in fact a poll in The Athletic suggested 91% of USL fans also follow MLS.

    https://theathletic.com/1862648/202...s-and-their-future?source=user-shared-article
     
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  23. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    #27274 M, Jul 9, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
    3) Why on earth did they choose to play this thing in Orlando then? Not just from a climatological point of view but from the 1,393% increase in covid-19 cases since it re-opened its economy.
     
  24. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    You need to open your eyes a bit more then. Always good to keep a track of the leagues above and below your team's league.
     

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