I think "less important" matters less than many think. A season is a journey or a narrative; it's only in retrospect that a regular season rises or falls in "importance." Fans generally take things one game at a time.
I agree that not everything done here is "right" part and parcel. I do contend that the anti-USA way folks hold an incorrect perception about either what exactly is bad, or how bad said things truly are. Some if it is fighting off things that have nothing to do with pro/rel in the USA from the other side. I, just like @JasonMa, have always stated that pro/rel is a synergistic property in many of the issues that world football faces. I've stated MANY times that "due to the money in the game now" the system doesn't provide for what the majority of the blowhards on the topic say it does. The realities of what pro/rel means has changed rather significantly. This system they say would be driving money into lower leagues and creating opportunity etc is actually helping drive the gap between top tiers and lower tiers in big soccer playing countries. It is pulling down more clubs than it is driving investment into and providing opportunities for. Everyone wants to point to Leicester yet IGNORE the billionaire owner and investment they had that spurred the whole thing. They joined the big boy club on the business end. Pro/Rel allowed them to move up to the Prem sure ... but how is the end result different than big money buying into Orlando and nabbing expansion to MLS? The biggest issue with the discussion is that it can't truly be had. People have to point to other places for examples/evidence/etc because we don't have it. It follows I'd have to do the same thing. How else is the discussion even had? It relates by way of the people holding these perceptions. It is an example of the selective application of their principles in regards to the MLS. They either ignore, dismiss, or down play very serious problems that the leagues they hold as golden standards. Literal results tampering is already been all but forgotten yet it is a crime against the game that MLS is single entity? Or, the Premier League refuses to share more money (actual monies that matter if being honest) down the pyramid but it is MLS that is crucified for not giving money to lower leagues they have no connection with? How in the world can MLS fans or the league itself hope to combat that? It isn't a whataboutism deflection it is a legitimate thing that happens day in and day out. It's an honest question when dealing with the perception that is held both globally and domestically by some. It is an open discussion, not a one on one discourse. Sometimes you ask questions or point to things that deal with more than just your response. In that particular response I was referencing the many people within this thread and within the broader discussion as it pertained to your assertion of my point. The point was bigger than just you. [quoteThis is the only point I care about now. We all agree that in the past the league helped certain teams acquire certain players, right? And that was justified at the time because of the precarious position of MLS and it's importance in growing the sport. What I have been trying to figure out is what people who follow MLS regularly would think if MLS did now? And it seems from your answers that you don't think they would, and you don't want them to. Is that an accurate reflection?[/QUOTE] Yeah, it did and yes that's why. I don't believe so no, and I truly hope they won't/aren't at this point. ONE * though. In a situation of a Ronaldo/Messi or 1% player wanting to come over I do feel that it would still be better for the league for them to be here even if it meant direct league involvement. I don't SEE it being the case as anyone like that is going to have ONE, MAYBE TWO destinations they'd even come to anyway and it isn't like folks would be oblivious to this. BUT if for whatever reason Messi was dead set on wanting to play in either Dallas or CLB or SJ or or RSL ... then yeah if the league needed to get that done, they should. The FINAL standings of the MLS regular season determine the MLS CUP CHAMPIONSHIP playoff field. The FINAL standings of the Premier League season determine the EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIP playoff field. What's hard to understand about that? Can you seriously not see how the MLS CUP PLAYOFFS are a cup competition? The winner of the regular season is recognized with hardware and given the same international reward as the mls cup champion (CCL spot). Yes, they are playoffs ... just like the World Cup and the Euros and the Sudamericana and .... In fact, it is literally the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE TOURNAMENT/EUROPA LEAGUE TOURNAMENT <---- yeah dude, they're playoffs. Speaking of mighty Sheffield United, how's that table looking? But seriously, SHEFF UTD wouldn't be in, they're first man out as it stands Don't said playoffs determine the champion? Each match in the regular season could have a direct primary connection even with playoffs. So then it counts in the US too then. Thought so. In TX it sure would. HS move classification and districts on the regular. That part is already there. The only issue I see is running into the literal size disparity. As good as my team was my sophomore year we had NO business moving up to the 4A district in our area. The losses of the seniors for the next season and then our schools size ... we had no business at all. Literal safety concerns playing that full schedule at that level. And there's the crux of the issue ...
Pro/Rel just wouldn't make sense for American Football at the high school and even the college level for exactly these reasons. That said, other sports it could work for. Basketball, Soccer, Lacrosse, etc. it could certainly work.
Nope. you're conveniently ignoring the added part that sets it apart as keeping the regular season meaningfull, while in the mls it doesnot matter wether the club is in pole or tail position.
It is not the fact that it is single entity that's the problem. It's that it's coupled with the owners also profiting from the national teams, the lack of solidarity/training compensation, the fact that they won't pay American players anything, so there's no hope for lower divisions developing talent and selling them up, etc. Single entity is simply a facet of the economic pillow MLS has placed on the face on the sport in this country for any venture not directly associated with MLS. I think it's fair to call that out. That said, the federation deserves some of the scrutiny for enabling them.
Most USL academies are pay to play. That may change if/when a transfer system is put in place. Overall there are 1,400 colleges, hundreds of pay to play academies, the Generation Adidas program and free to play MLS academies producing American talent. Btw, Montreal paid a transfer fee to Cavalry FC of the Canadian Premier League for Joel Waterman. As far as the single-entity is concerned it would not have happened without the single-entity. I've provided direct quotes to support that.
Note that since MLS was formed single- entity has become the standard ownership model for major leagues. That includes WNBA, XFL (twice) and Major League Rugby. Major League Lacrosse switched to single-entity in 2020.
Right, but there's a real chicken or egg thing here. There's certainly no incentive to end the pay to play model while MLS doesn't compensate. Chris Kessell had a take on this the other day: Financially MLS teams have zero incentive to run good academies. They can acquire young players without having to pay compensation to the developing club, they have a draft, American MLS players are severely contractually restricted, and there is no punishment for being bad.— Chris Kessell (@THEChrisKessell) July 4, 2020 Regardless of whether or not you subscribe to his views, his point here remains valid: building a development model contrary to economic interests is a tenuous position. Canada isn't part of USSF, and as I noted, the federation is a big part of the problem. Nobody is arguing that single entity isn't an extremely attractive model for the owners. They don't have to compete for labor, what wouldn't they love about that? However, that segues well to: This one is slightly more complicated: it started as single entity and has moved away from it mostly due to the anti-monopoly issues that a single entity structure brings. Maybe it's a model for how those other leagues can evolve, though.
I skipped the first 900 pages or so, but this is probably the best thing I've read on here....thanks.
Absolutely. And those sports (along with a couple of others) are also big-time club sports, so the relative affluence of their communities likely matters a lot. Getting to the original point of what that former Husker is advocating this.
But that's untrue. Random academies, high schools and colleges can't provide the consistent, top-class level of coaching that a top- fought professional team can. And MLS has claimed training compensation and solidarity payments for overseas transfers since 2019. I think US law is the biggest part of the problem. And as far as I know Canadian clubs have paid compensation without any intervention from the CSA. MLS is competing with the Bundesliga, Eredivisie, La Liga, Liga MX and scores of other leagues. WNBA not so much. https://www.coursehero.com/file/p14...responsible-for-evolving-the-first-ever-free/ See part 4. The MLSPA seems quite happy with their latest deal.
wow you didn't read anything I wrote did you. Serie A match fixing is an issue. It is for me, it is for others. But again that doesn't have anything to do with the topic. By putting 70,000 people in the Georgia dome (sorry Mercedes Benz), that's a pretty effective response. Better then whining and crying about it. I don't think that word means what you think it means. Again I never brought up Serie A. You did and then used it to try ask "well what about them". What does that phrase sound like? So stop tagging me, because YOU are adding to the perception that MLS fans are soft skinned, defensive whiners, who seem more interested in winning a tallest midget competition than actually enjoying the sport. (I know that's not true of most MLS fans but it is of you at the moment) Yes there are still negative perceptions of MLS out there. Some archaic and outdated, some still accurate. You whining about it doesn't help. How about promoting what's good (and there is a lot) rather than being so sensitive. I know, I know next you are going to say, "but we are promoting what's good and people still bring up what's bad" who cares, nothing in this world is perfect, and to quote Bubba Wallace "there will always be haters".
Yes EXA Yeah, it did and yes that's why. I don't believe so no, and I truly hope they won't/aren't at this point. ONE * though. In a situation of a Ronaldo/Messi or 1% player wanting to come over I do feel that it would still be better for the league for them to be here even if it meant direct league involvement. I don't SEE it being the case as anyone like that is going to have ONE, MAYBE TWO destinations they'd even come to anyway and it isn't like folks would be oblivious to this. BUT if for whatever reason Messi was dead set on wanting to play in either Dallas or CLB or SJ or or RSL ... then yeah if the league needed to get that done, they should. The FINAL standings of the MLS regular season determine the MLS CUP CHAMPIONSHIP playoff field. The FINAL standings of the Premier League season determine the EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIP playoff field. What's hard to understand about that? Can you seriously not see how the MLS CUP PLAYOFFS are a cup competition? The winner of the regular season is recognized with hardware and given the same international reward as the mls cup champion (CCL spot). Yes, they are playoffs ... just like the World Cup and the Euros and the Sudamericana and .... In fact, it is literally the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE TOURNAMENT/EUROPA LEAGUE TOURNAMENT <---- yeah dude, they're playoffs. Speaking of mighty Sheffield United, how's that table looking? But seriously, SHEFF UTD wouldn't be in, they're first man out as it stands Don't said playoffs determine the champion? Each match in the regular season could have a direct primary connection even with playoffs. So then it counts in the US too then. Thought so. In TX it sure would. HS move classification and districts on the regular. That part is already there. The only issue I see is running into the literal size disparity. As good as my team was my sophomore year we had NO business moving up to the 4A district in our area. The losses of the seniors for the next season and then our schools size ... we had no business at all. Literal safety concerns playing that full schedule at that level. And there's the crux of the issue ...[/QUOTE] Yes EXACTLY! Playoffs ARE knockout competions like cup competitions, that's the point I'm making, they shouldn't determine the league champion, that just makes a mockery of it. And you DONT qualify for European football from the Premier League by 'playoffs' do you? As for Leicester years ago when they were promoted we were catagorically told by some people on here they would be nothing but relegation fodder lol. As for your point about their wealth then tell me who in the Premier League DOESNT generate hundreds of millions of pounds!? You can simply use the 'wealth' argument for all of them! (like some on here have).
Agree with pro clubs providing better coaching compared to your average youth soccer club/scholastic environment. Chris is referring to internal domestic compensation, like these cases: https://fullcontactlaw.co.uk/2016/11/compensation-players-24-mystery/ My impression is there is not a lot of independent USL -> MLS movement, (excluding the Dos/2/Farm teams) as is, so I can't see making it suddenly cost MLS money is going to have USSF jumping into the fray. I'm sure USL ignores any kind of payment when they sign amateurs from the lower leagues. One can sign a lot of conmebol/concacaf guys on a free. Not sure it's good for the overall US player base but we'll see.
I know about transfer fees in England. Sean Okoli moved from Cincinnati to New York City after finishing as USL's top scorer. There was no transfer fee and he wasn't very good. The main reason why a young player would join a USL team rather than a MLS academy would be because they wanted to move to Europe at 18 without the hurdle of a transfer fee.
Right, so lacking domestic transfer fees, it supporst Chris' contention that there's really no economic incentive to do domestic player development "right".
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tw...ed-lets-go-of-entire-youth-academy-staff/amp/ Minnesota United lets go of entire youth academy staff
We could also have every team qualify for the playoffs so that the worst regular season team becomes champion. What "drama".
Didn't Wigan win a Cup tournament, and then get relegated for being one the three worst teams in the Prem that season?
Yes. Not sure what your point is. The FA Cup and the Premier League are unconnected; the MLS regular season and the MLS playoffs are not.
After the league finishes its expansion to 30 teams there will be 26 free to play top- flight academies in the US. Id suggest that's more than any European country. There seems to be more to that than meets the eye. They've immediately lost 3 of their best prospects to other teams.