The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Well, this thread is “The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA“, so it seems reasonable that MLS’s role in the discussion would be pretty central. MLS may not specifically be the one on trial here, but it’s still going to be cross-examined.
     
  2. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So do playoff spots. The final standings determines who makes the European Playoffs ... just like the MLS Cup playoffs.

    Except that's not how the conversation went. Nice attempt at framing though.

    Basic english sentence structure dude. "they" refers to the "those with shit perceptions" i'd used already. It isn't any big surprise or news to whom that refers in these discussions. There's a myriad of folks that are quite vocal across internet outlets as well as the folks in this very discussion here.

    I don't either, but again, it isn't happening now (at least not that I'm aware of).

    As are the ideologies, and thought processes of those that are accusatory towards it and say ... hold certain perceptions. That would include things like pointing out not so lovely stuff that is ignored or justified elsewhere yet held to the fire in the USA, to include say, a league. That's how that works.
     
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  3. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Do they have anything to do with pro/rel in soccer in the USA? Or is an attempt associate the various problems of world football to pro/rel? Because I've never seen actual, legitimate concerns ignored or justified (e.g. the real and legitimate problems of income inequality in England, Italy, Mexico, etc.). As @JasonMa very rightly pointed out, pro/rel isn't directly the cause, but it sure as hell doesn't help.
    The USA has a real opportunity to avoid a lot of problems other countries have because there is practically no cultural history here.
    But that means bad or counterproductive patterns need to be snuffed before they become "just the way we do things here": it's hard to get that toothpaste back in the tube.
     
  4. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Let me qualify this: by active, committed, and contributing actors to this thread. There have been plenty of drive-by cranks.
     
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  5. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Then please explain to me how it went, specifically how Serie A match fixing, a huge problem that is one of the reasons I follow Serie A only in passing, relates to perceptions of MLS.

    Yeh I know what the word is and how you used it. I am simply saying don't in conversations to me. Use my specific arguments not some nebulous concept of arguments that you attribute to me or "they".

    This is the only point I care about now. We all agree that in the past the league helped certain teams acquire certain players, right? And that was justified at the time because of the precarious position of MLS and it's importance in growing the sport.

    What I have been trying to figure out is what people who follow MLS regularly would think if MLS did now? And it seems from your answers that you don't think they would, and you don't want them to.

    Is that an accurate reflection?
     
  6. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    The final standings are the FINAL standings they are not subject to playoffs - the season is finished. If you qualify for European football you qualify for the new season - that's like winning the Championship and getting promotion to the Premier League the FOLLOWING season, it's not a playoff,that's something completely different.
     
  7. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes but I think the league sort of forced Sebastian Pigsticker on Chicago. It was a desperate last throw, nay second last, nay third last throw of the dice.
     
  8. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I had a roommate who had some familiarity with German and claimed the literal translation was "pig climber" and said if said in certain circumstances could be meant as pig f****. Not sure if I want to know if that's not true. Prefer my la la land of Sebastian Pigf****.

    (as opposed to another Sebastian who is F*** by prancing horses rather than pigs)
     
  9. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dictionary.com suggests steiger means mine foreman, climber and womanizer.
     
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  10. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Missed the point again.

    Roughly speaking, European competitions are playoffs for the continental title, are they not?

    But they are analogous for a different reason: just like mid-table American teams have something to play for other than first place (the playoffs), mid-table teams in European leagues have something to play for other than first place (Europe). One can't claim that European leagues are interesting because there are European places to play for, then dismiss the playoffs in US leagues.
     
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  11. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Greek League has adopted the Cypriot playoff system with the top 6 out of 14 going into the title playoffs. That's pretty much the same proportion as MLS once the league expands to 42.
     
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  12. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    No they're not playoffs, a playoff is like what happens to the teams that finish 3rd to 6th in the lower leagues, they then enter a playoff for the right to be the 3rd team promoted SAME SEASON. I understand that to decide the 'champion' in US sports they have to have these types of 'playoffs' no? Its completely different can you seriously not see any difference between cup competitions and league play!?
     
  13. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Playoffs for champions would help to solve the issue of the same teams winning the leagues year after year. It's easy to be the best team for 9 months but then slip up over 90 or 180 minutes.

    Now that Belgium, Cyprus and Greece have implemented them they may start to spread across Europe. Watch this space....
     
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  14. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Forty two?!?!?
     
  15. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    In Belgium, at least, the champion is not decided over 90 or 180 minutes, nor are points from the "regular season" completely thrown away. The last Europa League place doesn't have those safeguards though. Not a fan of what they do; it's a convoluted mess.
     
  16. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think I mixed up Major League Soccer with The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. It's easy to do. Zaphod Beeblebrox, worst DP signing ever!
     
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  17. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    There's a TAM/GAM/Bistromath joke in here somewhere, but I'm struggling to come up with it.
     
  18. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He acquired his Gargle Blaster using Pan Galactic Allocation Money.
     
  19. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    You've got to be joking right! Can you imagine if Liverpool where denied the league because they lost one game against Watford in a 'play off'! It would make a complete mockery of the championship!! You know damn well the English wouldn't allow something so stupid. You think it's 'easy being the best TEAM FOR NINE MONTHS!' Be honest with me - you gotta be trolling.
     
  20. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I never mentioned England. But it might make sense to have a post-season tournament in somewhere like Serbia, where only one team has broken the Red Star/ Partizan duopoly since the start of the Yugoslav civil war.
     
  21. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Or you could make them play with their arms tied behind their backs? Or flip a coin instead! That 'evens' things up! What's the point of playing a season if the winners (and proven best team) get to lose it all on a one off game!! Why not just play the one game and be done with it!? Saves 'wasting' the nine months in the first place.
     
  22. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why not do both? Australia does this with their leagues. They crown a Minor Premiers (Season winner) and a Premiers (playoff winner).

    Plus playoffs can mitigate the impact of injuries to key players. It also affords more opportunities to teams as well. Take Man United. They struggled for stretches this season as their young players gained experience. Now they are playing some of the best football in the league.

    Besides, the third place team in the Championship earned promotion through merit!! They shouldn't have to go through a playoffs to determine if they get promoted or not! :whistling::sneaky::ninja:
     
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  23. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Belgium, Cyprus, now Greece, and Holland for European places, just saying...
     
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  24. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    How does playoffs mitigate injuries? Players can be injured at any time including when playoffs take place!? Can you imagine if, after the season they've had, Liverpool had to play Sheffield Utd in some kind of ridiculous 'play off' for the title and lost!! It would make a complete and utter mockery of the league! It would basically kill the integrity of the league.
     
  25. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    This is nonsense. Playoffs vastly increase the probability that injuries to key players determine the outcome. If you decide the champion over the course of a whole season's games, the probability that it is injury-influenced is diminished..[/QUOTE]
     

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