The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's irrelevant.
     
  2. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    At the very least, they had 25 years of crap amongst that 50 years of 6 relegations. And if we're going off attendances, Sunderland would be in there too... maybe not the best statistic to further your argument.
     
  3. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego Loyal
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So not sure if this has already been covered but the FA have stated that there must be pro/rel at least for the prem/champ.

    Also within the debate about restarting the season in England the argument that pro/rel is integral to English football is widely held.

    Not saying that this means the US HAS to have it, or anything like that. Just pointing out how important it is viewed in leagues that do have it.
     
    M repped this.
  4. Dutch clubs sued the KNVB for not letting them promote to the Eredivisie. They lost, but I think it's a judicial error.
     
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  5. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    The fact that English professional leagues didn't simply void seasons shows how important pro/rel is there. And lower down the pyramid, where seasons were voided, that was an imposition from the FA rather than the leagues concerned making a decision to do that. And it was a pretty unpopular decision at that in some quarters.

    https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/spo...news/promotion-agony-north-east-side-17987435
     
  6. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In the case of League Two only the pro part is integral to the English game.

    They've proposed that promotion to L1 will proceed, Barrow will replace Bury but no team will be relegated.
     
  7. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    Teams will be relegated into League Two, so no. And it remains to be seen whether a second team will be promoted from the National League causing Stevenage, presumably, to be relegated. Of course, that will depend on the National League being able to hold a playoff, which I suspect will be challenging at this point.

    League One, the Championship and the Premier League will likely have pro/rel as normal. So the only thing in question, given Bury's demise, is that one relegation place from League Two.
     
  8. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Right. League Two does not want any team to be relegated.

    Yes pro/rel is important in England.
     
  9. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So the EFL is telling League Two that a team must be relegated. So Notts County may yet end up back in the Football League, which is all that matters ;)
     
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  10. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd say Keane was pretty up there (though at the being ridiculed stage for club football).

    BUT this speaks to my point about the leagues themselves. There are STARS in Ligue 1 that ... don't compare to Bundesliga/EPL STARS. That doesn't keep them from being a draw to Ligue 1 though.
     
  11. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    #26661 M, May 21, 2020 at 6:00 PM
    Last edited: May 21, 2020 at 6:05 PM
    Doesn't look like they're going to get any choice in the matter.

    https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...two-attempt-to-block-drop-promotion-play-offs

    Indeed. Sporting merit.

    In France, Amiens go to court to try to prevent relegation from Ligue 1:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/may/21/this-is-unjust-amiens-president-relegation-ligue-1
     
  12. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He spent half a season on loan at relegated West Ham before joining the Galaxy.

    And while Messi and Ronaldo front advertising campaigns for multinational companies, Keane featured in an unsolicited poster ad for a train company...

    "A Liverpool to London return faster than Robbie Keane."
     
  13. DCYC

    DCYC Member

    Chivas, DC United, Reno 1868
    Mar 24, 2010
    Reno, NV
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Really apreciate how knowledgeable you are about Liga Mx.

    Only one LMX owner actually owns a team in the ascenso (2nd). what happened is they bailed all the owners out. Ascenso could not pay their wages, they were basically broke. LMX teams together paid their debts in exchange of no pro/rel in 5 years, which will eventually be forever.

    of course, they left some clauses that if X team gets all the requirements and they pay a fee, they can join the top league.

    Sounds familiar?
     
  14. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There are only 12 teams left in Liga Ascenso.

    Ironically ascenso means promotion.
     
  15. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    I'm not, really. I don't speak Spanish, so I actually find it extremely hard to find any commentary about Liga MX that isn't basically a press release from the FMF.

    It's something I would like to know a lot more about, since it's right next door.
    I actually got that stat from https://www.espn.com/soccer/mexican...-decision-to-suspend-promotion-and-relegation so at least someone at ESPN thinks multiple Ascenso teams are owned by Liga MX owners.

    FWIW, I used that because I absolutely cannot find whatever the original source of how I learned about the ownership conflict of interest in the Ascenso was. Thus going back to the lack of coverage of FMF.
    I understand the issue and I am not saying that there are necessarily alternatives to what they've done, but I would almost bet you've got massive income inequality in the Mexican leagues, which could be better redistributed for the overall health of the system, and piss-poor management overall. If you starve the system from the top, you can't act surprised when the bottom fails to thrive.

    I mean, why aren't there English language broadcast rights being sold for LMX in the US?
     
  16. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ummm...ESPN and Fox routinely have English broadcasts of LigaMx games.....
     
  17. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    FOX Sports has exclusive rights to home matches featuring Monterrey, Santos Laguna, and Tijuana. Other English language broadcasts are available on the TUDN website.
     
  18. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So there is no second division in Mexico at the moment. The 2019/20 Apertura was Ascenso's last official season. What happens next is still to be defined.
     
  19. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    What @Paul Berry said: FOX only has English language rights to home games for Tijuana, Monterrey, and Santos Laguna. Obviously those are big teams, but it's still only up to 1/3 of the league (counting their opponent - assuming they're not playing each other) possibly covered each week.

    I also assume those teams have negotiated their rights with FOX directly: not sure how that's going to help FMF/LigaMX/AscensoMX/etc.

    And even then, I'm not sure FS2 "counts" for much. I can't easily find which network FOX showed this season's games on prior to lockdown to know what the spread was.

    LigaMX only appears on ESPN Deportes for ESPN.

    But besides, this is too little too late at this point: U.S. soccer fans should have been deluged with Mexican soccer club culture long before the Premier League was easily accessible.
    I'll be honest that I know next to nothing about TUDN, but I'm not sure I'd consider "on their website" quite the same thing. I don't see anything English language on there, though? I don't have cable, so I can't what happens at https://www.tudn.com/liga-mx-livestream to see what options are there.

    I also saw on Reddit that they have an English language stream on Facebook live, but I'd lump that in the same category.

    Yes, some people watch streams on their computer/devices, but most viewers want to watch sports on their TV.
     
  20. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    E.g. week 1 this clausura season: Santos was at Tijuana and Monterrey was on the road.
     
  21. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    TUDN used to be called Univision Deportes in the US and Televisa Deportes in Mexico.

    They combined the two names.

    They also broadcast MLS games on Facebook Live.
     
  22. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Well, I figured out that it was Univision when I visited it. I more meant "how they make their English language broadcasts available".
     
  23. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The same as their English language MLS commentary.

    SAP on your TV, Facebook Live or TUDN.com if like me you don't have cable.
     
  24. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    You can access TUDN without a cable provider? It asks me who I have cable through and doesn't let me get any further (as far as I can tell).

    Univision doesn't broadcast here, unfortunately, so I can't go the SAP route.
     
  25. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The full list of providers includes streaming services like Fubo.tv

    I use Spectrum internet which gives me streaming access to select channels.
     
    Expansion Franchise repped this.

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