The All-Encompassing Pro/Rel Thread on Soccer in the USA

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by bigredfutbol, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Yes but after a 38 game season where everybody has played everybody else home and away the club at the top are clearly the best team, if a club that finishes 20 points behind them were to then win a 'one off' and then try and claim they are the Champions it won't sit right. There are cup 'giant killings' every year in English football that go to prove that occaisonally (not often) clearly inferior teams can get the rub of the green and snatch a victory, even the world's best teams have suffered shock defeats every now and again, after a season of games though the teams true 'level' us going to show through.
     
  2. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I know Chelsea fans that attend games, I've known them for MANY years, I am 'the horses mouth', it's not about the 'purity' if the sport either (See my comment about dirty Leeds). One of THE most important things in any season at Stamford Bridge is beating Spurs - by as much as possible and as often as possible, we (match day attendees) don't want to forego playing Spurs or Leeds or even QPR to play Monaco or Milan instead!
     
  3. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    It's time to take off the blinders if you think that most Chelsea fans would be satisfied to play in the second most prestigious league in the world.
     
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  4. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I have no 'blinders' on, and you can call the world's most popular league 'second most prestigious' in an attempt to get a rise out of me if you like it won't make a difference - I AM the horses mouth, I have lived amongst Chelsea fans - the ones that actually attend the games- for MANY years and the fact is we care about beating Spurs, we care about stuffing West Ham, we care about beating United. Ask Feyenord fans If they would rather beat Ajax or AC Milan.
     
  5. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But if a team wins the title without beating the second-placed team head to head, it won't sit right with Americans. American sporting culture places great value on the ability to perform in a winner-take-all situation. The regular season tests consistency, playoffs test the ability to rise to the occasion. If you lose in the playoffs, even if you ran away with the regular season title, many Americans will say you choked under pressure and can't be considered the best. In fact, because the playoffs are set up to give the higher seed the advantage in each round, if you win the regular season title and lose in the playoffs, you lost with the field tilted in your favor and are subject to extra ridicule.
     
  6. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Your privilege is showing here: Feyenoord and Ajax play in a league with Chelsea's farm team.
    And this statement is exactly what I'm talking about: I am not insulting the PL and I am not trying to get a rise out of you. If the SL were to form, and Man United and Arsenal Liverpool and RM and Barcelona and Juventus and Bayern were all in it, the Premier League would absolutely no longer be the most prestigious and most popular league and if Chelsea wasn't a part of it (and had no way to be a part of it) you better believe that would have an effect on the club's stature and the fans would absolutely demand to be included.
     
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  7. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    'Rise to the occasion', 'choke under pressure' - EVERY Premier League game is an 'occaision', EVERY Premier League game has enormous pressure, that's kind of my point (See my earlier comment about the impression of US games having a 'friendly' feel about them), pro/rel adds to that feeling of 'occaision' and 'pressure'.
     
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  8. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nope. The pressure is spread out over many games. Until close to the end of the season there is no game that you absolutely cannot afford to lose. And games where both teams have everything riding on that one game are rare.
     
  9. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Rubbish! There are millions of football fans in the UK, we talk to each other about it on Monday mornings at work and at school- God help you if you lose to Arsenal on the Saturday and you have to run the gauntlet with the Arsenal fans you know on the Monday morning! Most English fans are NOT United, Liverpool & Chelsea fans - what do you think the fans of all the other clubs are going to do if those clubs isolate themselves from the rest of English football? You think the West Ham fans are suddenly going to be interested in Liverpool v Napoli or Porto v Bayern Munich!!? No of course not - they won't give a sh*t, as of right now though they DO care about Crystal Palace v Liverpool because it has a bearing on their own club!
     
  10. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    You cannot afford to lose ANY game because EVERY game counts, whether you are playing Bournemouth or Manchester City.
     
  11. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's funny, no one has ever had an undefeated season in the Premier League. Clearly they could afford to lose a game here and there.
     
  12. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    Citation needed
     
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  13. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Actually yes they have!
     
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  14. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    What you seriously think there are more Chelsea, United & Liverpool fans in England than all the other clubs in English football!! Dont be daft.
     
  15. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK, you're right about this one. It's happened once. My point still stands: the champions normally have a few losses. No single game is a must-win. Certain point totals are well-known benchmarks -- for example, 40 points is almost certain safety from relegation, which is why you hear so many people talk about being on track for at least 40 points.

    One other thing: in leagues where all the teams have similar resources, there are no games that feel like "friendlies" because the entire league becomes a dogfight. In many MLS seasons, three points is the difference between having home field advantage in the playoffs and missing out completely. There was a recent season in which, with just two weeks left to play, three-quarters of the league was still in contention for the Supporters' Shield (the regular-season title), which would have meant home-field advantage throughout the playoffs. At that time, the difference between being top of the league and missing the playoffs entirely was five points. And teams start the season knowing it's likely to be close, because it usually is. How can anyone think the games are like friendlies in that situation?
     
  16. Expansion Franchise

    Chattanooga FC
    United States
    Apr 7, 2018
    I know it's easier to buy Chelsea, Man United, Arsenal, or Tottenham gear in Birmingham than it is to buy Villa swag, and forget about Birmingham City stuff.

    My coworkers that follow football (again, Brum) mostly like Liverpool, with Villa probably a close second, followed by Wolves. Beyond that, it's largely based on where they're originally from (e.g. the CEO loves Sunderland, the CFO Chelsea, etc.).

    Most of my coworkers are from the West Midlands, however, but they don't support their local club (e.g. some of the Villa supporters would have actually have grown up closer to lower league clubs).
     
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  17. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah. That Burnley/Aston Villa match in the last round was one "pressure"-filled "occasion." And Norwich/Palace was appointment viewing.

    Calm down, mate.
     
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  18. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't really care whether a superleague is formed or not. However, if the owners of the 20 (or whatever) clubs in the world decide to form a superleague, it'll be because they've figured out that the eyeballs of the hundreds of millions of potential fans in Asia, the Americas etc. are more valuable than the butts in seats of a few million English fans.

    If it reaches the point where the potential members of a superleague are looking at vastly increasing their income from media deals that will result in a hundred million viewers for each superleague match, the opinions of Crystal Palace, West Ham, or Chelsea fans won't mean much. And, if local fans stop coming, they can just jack up prices and fill the stands with rich soccer tourists from Asia, Russia, the Gulf States etc.

    The point is, we fans are nothing more than entries on a balance sheet for club ownership. If your club can figure out how to replace you with a more profitable customer, they will. They're not your friend, and they don't care about you, other than a source of income.
     
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  19. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ... seriously guy

    So that's why the Dutch and Belgians have real interest in and are studying joining their leagues ....

    You haven't kept up with Big Blue ...

    and they laughed harder when the dot.com bubble went bust ... and with very few exceptions, absorbed - bought - merged with the ones that were actually savvy or on to something.

    Only if you conflate "best" with "champion. We've had that discussion too. Seems that's just another thing you don't understand ... which is odd given you have cup competitions and such.

    Remind me again, was that cup final for the LEAGUE ... or something else?
    I ask only because it makes all the difference in the world to the discussion WE are having and the one YOU are desperately trying to make a point with.

    '

    If Roman calls in what the club owes him ... THEY will be as relevant as humans in the Cosmic timeline.

    Who does that though? Our playoffs have a regular season elimination round and the surviving teams go to a knock out playoff to determine the champion. Nothing is based off of one game.

    By your course of thinking though, you're saying all cup competitions are mockery's/stupid/and don't crown champions because it is awarded based on one game? All the rest of the games before the cup final ... what, don't exist?

    You really have a bad habit of kicking your own ass when you type.

    La Liga/Ligue 1/Serie A have tv deals ... just saying

    Just ... no. Not EVERY GAME. I'm an Arsenal fan and have been since 1995 when they signed Bergkamp. I saw them rise to UNTOUCHABLE levels and have witnessed the WTF of the last 8yrs. They have played some absolute shit, NON OCCASION matches ... and not EVERY match in the league has seen them under enormous pressure or with anything actually on the line.

    Just no.
     
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  20. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    City would have been Supporter's Shield winners and the match would have been played at the City of Manchester Stadium.

    I prefer round robin but playoffs seem a perfectly acceptable way to decide a season's champions to fans of other sports across the globe.

    For example, the average attendance for Super League rugby in 2018 was 8,547 but 64,892 turned out for The Grand Final at Old Trafford.
     
  21. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How a league decides its champion is pretty much just a historical accident. Somewhere along the way, the EPL/NFL/MLB each decided to do things a certain way, for whatever reason (money, probably). None of the ways is more "right", just like there's no right or wrong on which side of the road people in a given country drive on.

    People need to take off their cultural blinders.
     
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  22. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually it was Ken Olsen at DEC before there were any personal computers but I don't remember it as I wasn't in the room and didn't read computer mags back in 1977.

    IBM's CEO made a prediction that there was a market for 7 computer mainframes back in 1953. That may actually become true.
     
  23. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Are you seriously trying to say that Aston Villa aren't under pressure!! Lol....Aston Villa! Have you actually seen the situation they are in!! EXACTLY the same can be said about Norwich by the way!! I mean seriously if you want examples of non pressure games they are two of the WORST examples you can give! lol
     
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  24. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    You actually think there are more Chelsea fans in Birmingham than Aston Villa fans! Dont be ridiculous!
     
  25. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    You think they will bus 75000+ people from Asia into Machester every time they have a super League 'home' game so that the stadium is full? What's the point?
     

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