The agenda of the left

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by superdave, Sep 28, 2017.

  1. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Don't drink beer but like cheese
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you think it is a problem, whether or not we do, if you are serious about it you will have a solution.
    But you have not really presented any non-biased evidence that it is a problem.
    Further, two-parent households are better, but it does not follow that single parent households are a problem.
    Additionally, there have multiple posts suggesting solutions which would support single parent households. Your retort amounts to incentives, which suggests single parents want to be single parents out of some level of convivence. Where is the data that says single parents would prefer to single parent?

    Beyond all of this, is a single parent, mutigenerational home in a middle class neighborhood worse than a two parent household in a poor neighborhood? Are there any scenarios which would change your view?

    Beyond that, how do you think that punishing single parents helps kids?
    apples and oranges.
    And you don't understand cancer because there is not cure for cancer, and probably will never be a cure. Treatment is probably the word you are looking for, but even that is not comparable.
     
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  2. marek

    marek Member+

    Lechia Gdańsk
    Poland
    Jun 27, 2000
    Club:
    OSP Lechia Gdansk
    Seventy two percent of Black babies born in 2008 were born to unwed mothers. Compare that to the 17 percent of Asians, 29 percent of Whites and 52 percent of Hispanics born to single moms in the same year. Journalist Jesse Washington highlighted this disparity in a recent article for the Washington Post, noting that statistics show that “children of unmarried mothers of any race are more likely to perform poorly in school, go to prison, use drugs, be poor as adults and have their own children out of wedlock.” We’ve long been aware of the rate of single motherhood in the Black community, but we’ve only just begun to talk openly about it, Washington notes. Organizations like Hampton University’s National Center on African American Marriages and Parenting have recently popped up. Movements like Marry Your Baby Daddy Day, Black Marriage Day and No Wedding, No Womb have gotten widespread attention — both positive and negative.

    https://www.essence.com/news/black-community-72-percent-unwed-mothers/

    add another doge to the Left playbook
    Unless you come equipped with a solution, you cannot talk about a problem

    one would think that someone adding more and more conditions on what issues can be talked about, is afraid to talk about such issues
     
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  3. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A complete lack of honesty here to answer the simple most basic question of this discussion. Very revealing.
     
  4. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    #1429 xtomx, Dec 3, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2022
    Once again, you are presupposing it is being unwed that is the "problem," not the myriad of social, familial, and economic concerns that would explain why certain children are "more likely to perform poorly is school, go to prison, use drugs..." Most of those concerns disproportionately affect poorer people, people of color and single people, parents or not.
    The perceived negative outcomes are symptoms of a broken system, not something inherently wrong with parents being unmarried.

    We all agree that having two parents in the child's life is more likely than not to be a positive. However, it is not a panacea by any stretch of the imagination. There are, once again, social, familial and economic benefits, but also there may be negatives (abuse, exploitation, neglect, etc.). The disfunctions between married spouses (domestic violence, negligence, etc.) are rampant within marriage.

    I said there is nothing inherently "wrong" with a single parent family and there is nothing inherently wrong with a single parent family.

    The artificial, legal relationship between the parents is NOT the primary factor in a positive outcome and in an enlightened society, it should not be. If people want to be married, great! If not, great!

    My "solution" for "unwed" parents would be the same as lower income "wed" parents- provide more opportunities, including housing, employment, education, health care, day care, and the financial assistance needed for those parents to properly care for themselves and their children.

    In addition, we do have to ensure that the non-custodial parent pay their fair share of child support. I have worked on many absent spouse child support cases in my career and I can tell you that the enforcement mechanisms are terrible.
    By the way, I worked with parents who were trying to obtain child support and also parents who were being taken advantage of by the system.

    The system is broken, like so many aspects of our legal system are broken. We need to fix our broken systems (legal, economic, educational, political, etc.) in order to do a better job supporting children, from "wedlock" or not.

    You and the Jazzy one seem to think there is a simple "solution." There is not, as this is not an independent "problem," it is symptomatic of a myriad of problems.

    I hope this did not violate the Jazzy one's 100 word rule. Damn, I just checked and it does.

    Edit: I should add that you and Jazzy are asking different questions.
    You are focusing on marriage.
    Jazzy sees to be focusing on single parents and some unidentified "governmental programs."

    I repeat the original post that precipitated this discussion:
    (emphasis mine)
     
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  5. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    #1430 xtomx, Dec 3, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2022

    Also, the only questions you have asked is:
    The "basic simple" answer to the first one is: Neither @Sounders78 nor I have been "cagey." We have both answered the question.
    The second is neither basic nor simple, but marriage/unmarried (Marek's focus) is NOT the problem.
     
  6. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    So you think it is a problem. Now what? Is your intent solely to criticize Democrats for wanting to do something to improve the lives of the children? Or do you have another reason for wanting to discuss this? You've given us nothing to work with except that you think it is a problem and Democrats should be blamed (but why, exactly, is unclear).
     
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  7. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can you answer it for me? I haven’t seen a clear answer. Please provide it in one sentence. Thank.
     
  8. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When have Democrats improved the lives of children? What specific policies?
     
  9. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why should any of us answer new questions you pose when you have left most of ours unaddressed?
     
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  10. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I still can’t even get an answer to the most basic question of this discussion from essentially anyone here. Fear dominates.
     
  11. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As Tywin tells Joffrey, "You are being counseled at this very moment."

    Just because you are unable to understand the answer does not mean you are not getting an answer. We cannot make you smarter. That's on you.
     
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  12. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Don't drink beer but like cheese
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://www.cbpp.org/press/statemen...policies-helped-drive-child-poverty-rate-to-a

    Today’s Census figures show government policies prevented massively higher financial hardship and lack of health insurance in 2021, as the nation continued to wrestle with the COVID-19 pandemic and recover from the resulting job loss. The expanded Child Tax Credit alone kept 5.3 million people above the annual poverty line and helped drive a stunning reduction in child poverty to a record low. Poverty overall also reached a record low and the uninsured rate dropped substantially, with Medicaid and Affordable Care Act (ACA) marketplace coverage reaching or nearing record highs..

    ...

    The new data show that due chiefly to the Child Tax Credit, child poverty fell sharply in 2021 and reached a record low of 5.2 percent, as measured by the Supplemental Poverty Measure (SPM), which accounts for taxes and non-cash benefits, among other methodological differences from the official poverty measure, in Census data that start in 2009. Indeed, we find that it is also the lowest back to 1967, analyzing historical data from researchers at Columbia University and adjusting 2021’s poverty threshold backward for inflation. As recently as 2018, 13.7 percent of children were below the SPM poverty line, Census tables show.
    https://beyer.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=5726

    Today, the U.S. Congress Joint Economic Committee (JEC)—led by Chairman Don Beyer (D-VA)—released a new report that highlights how the expanded Child Tax Credit (CTC) drove the largest-ever decline in child poverty in a single year in 2021. Child poverty fell to 5.2%, the lowest rate on record according to Census Bureau measures, and data show the CTC expansion was the single-largest contributor to the reduction.

    As part of the American Rescue Plan, the value of the CTC was dramatically increased from $2,000 per child to up to $3,600 per child under age 6 and to $3,000 per child between age 6 and 17 in 2021, and it was made fully refundable to ensure the lowest-income families could receive the full value of the credit. To help families meet their needs in real time, half of the credit was distributed via monthly payments, and the remainder of the credit was distributed via families’ annual tax returns. Over 36 million families with more than 61 million children received monthly payments in 2021, and data showed that families spent the monthly CTC payments primarily on food, internet and other utilities, mortgage and rent payments, clothing and education costs, among other household needs. Almost immediately, the expanded CTC reduced financial hardship and food insufficiency.
     
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  13. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I have answered your question.
    Others have answered your question.

    If you don't like the answers, either restate the question or go away.

    We have shown you far more respect than 1) you have shown to anyone else and 2) than your obsequious, disingenuous self deserves.
     
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  14. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Namibia
    I wonder when said poster will come back to the climate thread to recant his stridently incorrect opinions about climate science
     
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  15. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Namibia
    this must be why Trump has been consulting with neo nazis on race theory!
     
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  16. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Namibia
    I see this question wasn't answered by either poster
     
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  17. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    That's how you Own The Libs!
     
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  18. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    Wait… You didn’t recognize the troll at the outset?
     
  19. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
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    San Jose Earthquakes
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    We libs are really optimists when it comes down to it. Despite all evidence to the contrary, we keep thinking and hoping that maybe, if we just restate our point a little more logically or provide a little more evidence, maybe this will be the post that gets those trolls to acknowledge "hey, you know what, that's a good point, I hadn't thought of that". Our hopes are always dashed, but we keep trying, because we're optimists.
     
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  20. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are you trying to use big words you don’t understand?

    obsequious doesn’t doesnt mean what you appear to think it does. Just more proof of your confusion.
     
  21. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought you folks didn’t believe in essential IQ or intelligence?
     
  22. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They are afraid to admit that any type of problem exists that may affect the black community if they cannot easily blame racism for it. In their minds, the black community is nothing more than a group of victims without agency who are either raised or lowered by the actions of white people. So they go to great lengths to avoid answering very simple questions about whether this is a problem. Or they go to great lengths to argue absurd points like fathers have no positive influence on their children other than economic and as some form of daycare, as many did here.
     
  23. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    Horsefeathers......how come all this was never a problem or issue when the other guys were in office? :confused:
     
  24. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thank the heavens you're not on our side.
     
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  25. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Don't drink beer but like cheese
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes and no. In this case, everybody is asking for a solution to the stated problem. No solutions have come other than stop providing "incentives." Only there is research that shows lowering or stopping those said incentives does not work in stopping said problem. Further, most of us would like to see an earnest proposal. We will certainly pick it apart, but if it is thought out, there will be parts which will accepted. And that is no different from what we do amongst ourselves.

    Neither you or @marek are addressing the structural and historic issues which are related. There needs to be wide ranging changes, some of which are being done or worked on, to "fix" said problem. You have had three posters explain how this might be a "problem" while also saying that it is only a "problem" that cannot be resolved until other issues are also addressed. If you are earnest, you will have a thoughtful proposal.

    But based on the past few pages, you don't. You will just run into your corner and throw a tantrum while the rest of us are sitting at the adult table looking at how to make thing better regardless of political affiliation or race or gender or orientation.
     
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