The ACC

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by Tom81, Oct 1, 2023.

  1. Tom81

    Tom81 Member+

    Jan 25, 2008
    Just noticed the B12 has a 12 team tournament.
    Simply for comparison's sake.
     
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  2. luvthegame

    luvthegame Member

    Oct 17, 2005
    ACC may not change. It is a disadvantage to make a team play in the ACC tournament if they are on the bubble of the .500 rule. Could take a loss and bump them out. So adding let’s say a 10 team tournament. The number 8,9 and 10 seed could be .500 and a loss would put them out of ncaa bid even if the rpi is in a range for at large when they already probably qualify for ncaa.
     
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  3. Karamundo

    Karamundo New Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Dec 8, 2023
    #328 Karamundo, Oct 31, 2024
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2024
    Appreciate the altruism but If you look at the records of the current ACC teams, the top 10 are all comfortably over a .500 overall win percentage.

    If what you bring up arises couldn't that team just decline the tournament offer? This is a strong conference where any team can win on a given day. Competition should be encouraged- to benefit the players and yes allow chances for unexpected heroes and results. Being in the tournament is an advantage and an opportunity which should be allowed to more than 6 teams in this conference.
     
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  4. Wildcatter

    Wildcatter Member

    Sep 9, 2018
    how about the flip side when the bigger tournament helps the lower seeds. A few years ago Florida State was a the 7 seed. meaning they would miss the tournament in todays setting. Back then it was top 8 go to the ACC tournament.

    Florida State ended up winning the ACC tournament which boosted their RPI and they ended p with a 1 seed in the NCAA tournament. wouldn't have got that if they didn't win the ACC tournament. Went on to win the national championship that year. Probably helped having all of those games in Tallahassee and not having to go on the road in the NCAA tournament.

    ADs always say student athlete experience is the most important thing. If that's the case let more student athletes experience the conference tournament
     
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  5. Germans4Allies4

    Jan 9, 2010
    Expanding to a 10+ team tournament would probably mean less regular season games and don't play more teams. Is only 8-9 ACC games really a true representation? Need a math whiz to tell us what's the best format for 17 teams but student-athlete experience for teams that don't make it is an issue too since they'd experience less ACC games.
     
  6. luvthegame

    luvthegame Member

    Oct 17, 2005
    You can not opt out of the ACC tournament. Remember a few years ago when FSU did not bring their starters and left them at home. MK did not want his best players to have to play in the tournament to save their legs. He wanted to win the National Tournament. He got so much push back including fined by the ACC and suspended by the ACC. So I do not think they will allow you to opt out.
     
  7. whatagoodball

    whatagoodball Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Dec 9, 2021
    An 8-team tournament doesn't add any more to the maximum number of ACC tournament games a team plays (3). With 17 teams, they should go with 8 - especially since there are 6 teams each team won't play in their ACC schedule. I'd also increase the number of ACC games to 11, or even 12.
     
  8. Tally T

    Tally T Member

    philly
    United States
    Sep 16, 2019
    From what I have been hearing I expect that they will go to an 8-12 team tournament.

    Pensky discussed this in the video I posted above but I doubt that they increase the number of ACC games. Although I personally would have no problem with it the coaches of the weaker ACC teams would fight against it. They want to be able to schedule more games against weaker non-con opponents to improve their record. There are also travel issues with having more ACC games.
     
  9. whatagoodball

    whatagoodball Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Dec 9, 2021
    The travel is an unfortunate but necessary consideration.
     
  10. Wildcatter

    Wildcatter Member

    Sep 9, 2018
    Seems like other conferences may be modeling after the ACC. I heard the Big 12 is changing to a 6 team conference tournament starting next fall. They currently have a 12 team tournament for 16 teams in the league.
     
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  11. Read Only

    Read Only Member

    Blues
    United States
    Mar 21, 2024
    As a fan I just don't understand the difference between 6 and 8 teams. Why not give two other teams a chance for the conference tournament experience? It seems silly, especially with these huge conferences now, to only allow 6 teams in. Having 8 over 6 doesn't add any days to the event.
     
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  12. Nooneimportant

    Leeds United
    Jan 12, 2021
    Not saying I necessarily agree, but I can give you 1 reason for 6. As the best soccer conference in the country, you may prioritize winning national championships over a robust conference tournament. Your top 2 teams are always going to be in the Natty discussion and giving them a bye and 1 less game has multiple benefits. If I am not mistaken, Cpthomas has already said conference tournaments do not really help RPI and may slightly hurt it. Say the #2 seed loses to #7 seed and it costs them a #1 seed and home quarterfinal in the NCAA tournament. In an already overcrowded schedule, it is also one less game to have the top players on the top teams get injured.

    I would personally lean to 8, but understand the reasons behind 6. Just don’t do 10. If you need reasons, go look at the current stupidity and horrible setup of the Big 10 tournament.
     
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  13. Read Only

    Read Only Member

    Blues
    United States
    Mar 21, 2024
    Fair enough on the ACC but the Big West and Mountain West also have six. Only one team goes to the NCAAs typically in those conferences so I think they should give two more teams the experience of post season play.
     
  14. Carolina92

    Carolina92 Member

    Sep 26, 2008
    ACC Tournament is set…

     
  15. Tom81

    Tom81 Member+

    Jan 25, 2008
    So I believe that FSU will host ND Sunday and UNC will host Va Tech.
    If we win, we get WF and Duke awaits the winner of UNC and VT.
     
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  16. babranski

    babranski Member+

    Dec 15, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    that looks correct. I think Duke has pretty much locked up a #1 seed, but if UNC can at least get a win against VT they'll secure a 1 as well. I'm not sure how I feel about FSU getting a #1 seed if they manage to win 2 games, but they certainly should deserve it if they can win the tournament.
     
  17. Carolina92

    Carolina92 Member

    Sep 26, 2008
    Duke is surely a lock at 1. I think if UNC, FSU or Wake win the tournament they’ll also get a one seed.
     
  18. Tom81

    Tom81 Member+

    Jan 25, 2008
    There will surely be at least 2 #1 seeds from the ACC. 3 is not out of the question.
     
  19. Bigred.

    Bigred. Member

    Barcelona
    Germany
    Dec 28, 2023
    even Notre Dame could get close to it if they win the tournament.
     
  20. Tom81

    Tom81 Member+

    Jan 25, 2008
    FSU's game with Miami is a stark reminder that in soccer, the best team can lose to a lesser team with either a moment of brilliance or a stupid mistake. We didn't in this case, but if UM can hold us to one goal, it can happen to any of us.
    I think that happened to UCLA Last year?...
     
  21. sweepsit

    sweepsit Member

    Oct 25, 2016
    SF, California
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    UNC may have to do more. If you have Duke, SEC, Big Ten as 1s and then FSU or Wake win or even go further than UNC in acc tourney, UNC likely doesnt get a 1 with 5 losses (albeit three of them to Duke).
     
  22. Soccerhunter

    Soccerhunter Member+

    Sep 12, 2009
    Good observation, Tom. UNC had a great example last night. From my oblique angle, a defender in the box yelled and pointed to a teammate to cover an opening just as Duke took a shot about 10 feet away. She tried to move her arm out of the way, but not fast enough and a PK resulted.
     
  23. Carolina92

    Carolina92 Member

    Sep 26, 2008
    Realistically the non ACC teams still vying for a 1 seed are USC (B1G), Miss St. (SEC), Arkansas (SEC) and Iowa (B1G). I’d argue that Miss St. is at or close to lock status for 1 seed going undefeated in SEC play. Even if Penn State wins the B1G tournament, they’ve probably lost too many games already to be seriously considered and had a poor conference finish. TCU fans are loud on Twitter, but the Big 12 is way too weak of a conference to do them any favors.
     
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  24. whatagoodball

    whatagoodball Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Dec 9, 2021
    I find it a good exercise to go back and see how my predictions fare. In general, it reminds me of how little I forsee. I was reminded.

    Duke
    WF
    FSU
    UNC
    Va Tech
    ND
    Cal
    Stanford
    UVA
    BC
    Pitt
    Louisville
    SMU
    Clemson
    Miami
    NC State
    Syracuse

    - Very Big Misses Lower
    Clemson and Pitt
    - Big Misses Lower
    Stanford
    - Big Misses Higher
    VA Tech, WF

    Observations
    FSU is not what it was last year - to the relief of the rest of the ACC - but is peaking at the right time
    UNC's season is remarkable given all the turnover from last year
    WF and Duke rode experience
    - Duke did exceptionally well with their transfers adding to a solid, but offensively challenged core from last year
    ND has a slew of talented freshman
    VA Tech is an experienced, physical team with an excellent defense
    BC with a 4-4-2 ACC mark exceeds expectations
    Stanford and Pitt have to be disappointed with their results
    - Stanford averaged 1.1 goals per game in the ACC
    - Pitt was 3-2-1 before tying Miami and then dropping 3 straight to FSU, WF, and ND with 12 GA and 3 GF in the last 3 games.
    - I didn't follow or see any Clemson games, but the dropoff from last year is extreme
     
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  25. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good exercise, @whatagoodball. I did pre-season ranks as did the coaches. Mine are based on average Balanced RPI rankings for the last 7 years for all teams, translated from there into predicted rankings this year, from there into predicted RPI ratings, from there into conference game results based on opponents' comparative RPI ratings as adjusted for home field advantage. and finally from there into conference standings using the 3 points for a win and 1 for a tie system.

    Here is a table that shows how your pre-season ranks compared to the coaches, mine, and the final standings:

    upload_2024-11-1_15-58-12.png

    Your rankings missed the final ones by 3.88 positions on average. The coaches missed by 3.53. I missed by 3.41. Chris Henderson did not do internal conference rankings this year, but in the past his, mine, and the coaches have had very similar "miss" rates across all conferences, with the coaches doing the best, then Henderson, and then me.

    I llike to do these comparisons because they tend to show that team history is more important than most people take into account. One can have all sorts of specific information about changes from year to year, but they often do not make as much difference as one might expect.

    As a matter of interest, the miss rates for the ACC this year are very high compared to what has happened in the past across all conferences. In the past, miss rates have been in the low 2s. Some of this may be due to this year's major conference membership changes.
     
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