Thought I'd start a thread to talk about the ACC, who looks to win the reg. season, what teams should make the dance, who the MVP, all conference and Rookie of the Year candidates are. I'll start with posting the league standings with the conference games remaining. TEAM ------- ACC W-L-T --- Overall record Wake Forest -- 3-0-0 -- 9-0-2 Maryland ------- 3-1-0 -- 10-3 Duke ------------- 3-1-0 -- 8-3-1 Clemson -------- 2-1-0 -- 9-1-1 North Carolina -1-2-0 -- 8-5 Virginia ---------- 1-3-0 -- 6-5 NC State -------- 0-5-0 --- 4-8 ACC games remaining Wake - Clemson, @North Carolina, @ Duke Maryland - Clemson, @ Virginia Duke - virginia, Wake Forest Clemson - @ Wake Forest, @Maryland, UNC UNC - NC State, Wake Forest, Clemson UVa - Duke, Maryland NC State - @North Carolina I'm guessing Carolina and UVa rebound enough to still make the big dance and Duke, despite losing its final 2 ACC games, still makes the NCAAs as well, meaning 6 ACC teams go to the show. I also think the ACC reg. season title and the conference tourney's first round bye, is decided by this weekend's game between Wake and Clemson. Whoever wins that game is the likely reg. season champ.
Tourny Sandon - What are your thoughts on the ACC Tourny hurting teams once they get to the NCAA's. UVA from last year was an example. Do you think the tourny took too much out of them? Do you think teams put so much into the ACC's that the first few rounds of the NCAA's are a downer? Clemsom had their captain, leader, etc. injured in the ACC Final last year and even though they made the final eight, it hurt them in the 2 games leading up to it.
Sandon, when is the last time 6 ACC teams made the tournament? It certainly seems that all 6 teams are deserving, but I wonder what the committee will think about that many teams from one league, albeit it's a very strong league. As far as UNC and UVA making the tournament, it seems to me that they can't afford to lose any more games to unranked opponents, and they also need to win at least one game in the ACC tournament. Finally, you don't think that Tarantini's boys will make the show? I know it's beating a dead horse, but how long will the administration at NCSU allow State to be the laughing stock of ACC men's soccer? The State women just last week knocked off top ranked UNC.
Good thread. Thanks Sandon for getting it started. Of the remaining games Duke has the easiest schedule. They're also sitting in the best place going into the remaining games. Even if they lose to Virginia and Wake they finish at .500 in the ACC. They also get Wake at home which helps. They should go 4-2 at the worst over their last six games finishing at 12-5-1 and 3-3. From the way they looked at the start of the season I never figured they'd be in this position. Perea was hurt when I saw them play South Carolina. His being healthy makes them a much better team. They also have some freshmen that are really stepping up and contributing. Virginia has two tough games left, a couple of potential upsets (but probably not at home), and three easy games. I say they lose to Maryland, beat Duke, and win the other five games. They finish at 12-6 and 2-4. Does a less than .500 team in the ACC make the show? I say they do. Carolina has the toughest remaining schedule. They have what should be three easy wins and three difficult games against Wake, Clemson, and South Carolina. I don't see them beating Wake or Clemson and they'll have their hands full with South Carolina. I see them finishing at 11-8 and 2-4, or possibly 10-9 and 2-4. They're definitely on the bubble.
Re: Tourny Well, it didn't seem to hurt North Carolina last year! That said, there is likely something to this. Since 1996 the ACC has only had 3 teams make the Final Four - Virginia in 97, Maryland a year later and UNC last year - which is a surprisingly low number of teams in the Final Four given all the talent that has been at the ACC during this time. BTW, of those 3 teams that have made the FF since 96, none of them won the ACC tourney. I think ACC tournament related injuries and an early NCAA round letdown are real issues. While I don't see an obvious sollution to the injury issue, I think it is up to the coaches and players to get up for the early round games. I mean, if you can't get up for a one-and-done game in the tournament that decides the national champion, regardless of the opponent, then you likely aren't championship material.
I'll take shot at the Rookie of the Year Candidates: Erwin Diaz Michael Parkhurst Aaron King Frederico Peria I could list a lot of other very impressive freshmen but they just don't have the stats: Justin Moose, Ian Carey, Justin Moore, Hunter Freeman, Ryan Alexander, Joe Vide... And the winner is: Aaron King. Can you give Rookie of the Year to a player from a team that hasn't even won an ACC game? I know I argued earlier that Aarron was putting up these numbers against weak teams, but the fact is with 7 goals and 4 assists no other freshman even comes close. I could be talked into Parkhurst very easily. He's anchoring the defense on the best team (or maybe the second best) in the country. You don't see many freshman playing central defender on any team--much less on a team as good as Wake.
my two-cents in this, my innaugural post, i would like to take the opportunity to (hopefully) shed some light on the ACC tournament and its effects on a team's chances in the NCAA's the ideal situation (by far) is for an ACC team to position themselves for a run at the NCAA's prior to the ACC tourn. so that results in that 4 day battle mean nothing. Obviously no team plays in the ACC's with the intention of losing, but being knocked out early certainly has its benefits (physically). The good news is that the likelihood of this happening has been improved by the expansion of the field to 48 teams. case in point, last year North Carolina, eventual champions, were beaten in the semis of the ACC's by Clemson - in fact they were outplayed. But they were safely in the NCAA's and had a over a week (Fri-Sun) to recover/prepare for the NCAA's. Clemson in their third game in four days, won an ugly, gutsy match 1-0 in the final and lost Ian Fuller. Compound that loss with the losses of Dimelon Westfield and Steven Rhyne earlier, and the Tigers were left without a true front runner for the NCAA's - not to mention the fact that having played three games in four days, the Tigers had two less days to recover/prepare. As a result of the injuries the Tiger coaching staff had to totally abandon their original gameplan and move Oguchi Onyewu up front for the match against Indiana. He scored a great goal (mystery foul called it back) but the bottom line is that the coaching staff's cretive decisions to overcome those injuries could only take them so far. Certinaly this phenomenon is not unique to ACC teams, but I know there is a real sentiment from Athletic Directors around the league to come up with an alternative plan - whether it be spreading the tournament out over two weekends or abandoning it in favor of some other sort of final game (i.e. Big XII or SEC football championship game) it's not like the ACC tournament is a huge money maker. As far as the Athletic Directors are concerned, I believe they are willing to sacrifice the ACC tourn. in favor of a few more national championships being won by ACC teams. It is no mystery that he ACC is the best conference with the best players from top to bottom, so the question remains - why not more NCAA champs? I think that the ACC tourn does play a key role..
Rookie of the year hey k1v1n, #1 stats can play a part in mvp honors, but not a "tell all" in the final analysis. #2 evidently you haven't paid much attention to CLEMSON and their FRESHMAN central defender, JUSTIN MOORE. he is surrounded by a pretty solid backline with lewis, hilgenbrinck, & rivera..however from what i've heard & read he has been solid himself. i was told that he leads the TEAM in minutes played this season. clemson vs wake could settle the issue between moore & parkhurst. #3 the success of the TEAM should also play a part in a vote for an honor such as rookie of the year. that leaves out your favorite, aaron king.
Concerning Rookie of the Year, I would say that offensive stats should not be considered that important, unless they happen to be overwhelmingly phenomenal. In the case of Aaron King, you can't hold it against him that he plays for a losing team, and while his stats are good, the bottom line is that he plays for the cellar dwellar and most voters won't give him the time of day. As someone with experience when it comes to voting on collegiate athletic awards, I can tell you that many voters look simply at stats, but most voters will consider the "whole" picture. Whenever I vote for an athlete, I first consider his value to his team. For example, how good would State be without King in the lineup? I don't think their record would be much different than it is. How good would Wake or Clemson be without Parkhurst or Moore in the lineup? Personally, I think the Deacs might have a loss or two, and the Tigers would have more losses. Secondly, whether it's fair or not is open for discussion, but I look at the overall success of the team. A player from a winning team is MUCH more likely to receive a post season award. There has to be an emphasis on winning. Also, voting in soccer is much more difficult than voting in most sports, like basketball. Do you vote for a workmanlike defender who is a blue collar player, a solid GK with a good goals against average, or the flashy front runner? It's like comparing apples to oranges.
Re: Rookie of the year I've seen Justin Moore twice. Unfortunately for Justin, one of those times was against Duke. Nuff said.
Has anybody seen Ryan Kerlew play for duke? He's a freshman defender for Duke. I know he's been hurt all season and has just started playin again. I saw him play against Clemson and Maryland and thought he did a decent job against their frontrunners even though he was still hurt. If you had to choose which group of freshman has had the biggest impact on their team who would you pick?
Rookie of the year no! it's not enough said....no player should be judged on one outing, by you, me, or anyone else. no athlete in any sport performs at his best everytime out.. i'm sure you'll agree. like i said, wake & cu square off this sunday. let's continue this next week. by the way, i didn't see the duke game. i'm mainly going on what i've heard & read about moore.
First you tell me that I must not be paying attention. I tell you that I've seen the young man in question play more than once. Then you tell me that I shouldn't judge. If we didn't "judge" there wouldn't be much discussion on BS. That's what we do here. All I'm telling you is my opinion based on what I've seen. I've seen 26 D1 soccer games this fall. I've seen every ACC team play more than once except Virginia (who I've only seen once). Based on what I've observed to date I have been very impressed with Parkhurst. My opinion might change after the CU/Wake game. It might change again after the ACC tourney. But if I had a vote, and the vote had to be cast today, I would vote for Aarron King followed by Parkhurst.
Re: Re: The ACC thread this i what i was responding to when i said, "not paying attention". MOORE is a freshman, also, a central defender, also, & on a good team, also. my point on judging is that you don't usually form an opinion on any player based on his performance on any one game whether you have seen him in 2 or 200. sorrry if i upset you with my remarks. of course this is what BS is all about...opinions & judgement.
Re: Re: my two-cents I was born in Dallas, played for Solar SC under Kevin Smith, moved to Austin when I was 13, played under Wolfgang Sunholz, came to clemson for college.
Question about Parkhurst - at 5-10, he's not tall enough to really play centrally at the next level; does he have the footspeed and ball skills to play wide? And, would that be on the left or the right? As for King, I don't think the fact that State sucks should be held against him in voting for RotY. In fact, I think a good case could be made that being on a bad team should work in his favor. I mean, if he can put up good numbers despite being on a bad team, imagine what he could have done if he had better teammates? Just a thought. I think King is definitely a strong contender for the award along with Parkhurst, Justin Moose, Justin Moore, Frederico Peria and perhaps Hunter Freeeman.
Haven't seen NC State play this year....usually watch them play is torture....so tell me more about King and Peria. IMHO, these guys, and the entire team, should get a humanitarian award for putting up with GT all season.
No doubt! King is a big boy, like 6-2 190, from Colorado. He has 7 goals and 4 assists. Peria is a center mid from Argentina who has 10 assists. I haven't seen them play so that's all I really know about them other than they must have really wanted to play in the ACC if they chose to play for Tarantini!
recruiting to be honest with you...there are few coaches i would want to play for in the ACC. Obviously Coach Adair is at the top of my list, but i think the only other guy i might play for is Coach Vidovich at Wake. Tarantini is not the lone gunman on the grassy knoll. I think that most recruits have no idea what they're getting into, and it is quite difficult as a 17-18 yr. old kid to make discriminating decisions about coaches and teams based on a 48 hour visit. Let's be honest, college soccer receives next to no major media attention, so these coaches (and players for that matter) are, for the most part, a mystery to most recruits coming in.
What's to say? King scores goals--Peria creates them. The NC State web site lists King at 6-2 175. I'd say that's pretty accurate. I wouldn't describe him as "burly". He has excellent speed, can get stuck in, and has good feet. Peria is listed as 5'8" 155. If he's an inch over 5'5" I'd be surprised. He creates his goals by beating people on the dribble, drawing defenders, and finding the open attacking players with the pass. His weaknesses are in speed and defense--he's small and he doesn't like to tackle.
Let's make a deal, pick a real team In the next couple of weeks we will be arguing, a mean discussing, the All-ACC 1st and 2nd teams which will officially be announced on 11-13-02 at the ACC Tournament luncheon. Let's do something very rare, let's try picking a real eleven player team either a 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 and not 7-8 forwards as is usually done because they have the "stats".
Tarantini is a lunatic! I watched NC State play this weekend against Duke, and Tarantini should have to coach in a straight jacket! At one point, he was standing in front of the Duke bench. Later on in the game, he was mocking Rennie because of something Rennie was shouting at the ref. I thought these two guys were friends.....George probably lost the only friend he had! As for the State freshmen, King is anything but burly (tall and lanky) and I almost didn't recognize Peria. Even though his name was spelled similar to Trevor Perea, that was the only similarity. He's susposed to be State's playmaker, but he was invisible for most of the match. King did score a goal in the match, but it was a tap-in on the line against a patch-work Duke defense. They are having a lot of injuries in the back, and Kerlew hasn't played as well as they probably have hoped. Duke's offense looked dangerous as Perea, Carey, Cila and Adogwa were all very active.