It logically follows that if you can only replace a player in case of their injury or serious illness (literally stated in the regulation), that FIFA is not expecting to allow club teams if they want to just take a do-over. Otherwise, why not put it in the regulation? It’d be no more than one sentence. Maybe even only a few words. The idea that Barcelona just told Kochen he’s returning and there’s nothing else that mattered is pure speculation. Very well it could’ve been that Kochen or his agent asked for it. Or maybe USSF didn’t really try to fight the Barcelona ask very hard. I think I’ll just go with a simple reading of the regulation for the competition as what governs. If you want to go with something else, that’s your choice. I’m going to believe the kid or the federation didn’t do all they could to ensure he remained with the team because that’s what the regulations for this tournament would suggest happened, logically speaking.
That’s not at all a logical reading at all. FIFA saying you can only replace a player for certain reason in no way means it flows that a club can’t recall a player that it’s not mandated to release in the first place. If this was the rule it would be explicitly stated. The competition rules themselves say that other FIFA regulations applying including those on player releases. Now on can say it’s poor form for Barcelona to release a player for the tournament and then pull it back, but not everything is the fault of USSF. They simply had no leverage here. Which sucks because I wanted to see Kochen play in this tournament, but you’ve yet to cite a single rule that indicates that what Barcelona did was not allowed.
Most players don’t have the leverage of Messi. I believe Pep Guardiola also interceded at the time to help smooth things over for him to go.
Indeed. I expect we're in discussions just like this with clubs. I can easily understand Barca saying "We'll release Kochen to the event. If we have an injury to one of our keepers, though, we're going to have to recall him. That's a condition of our initial release." So we kind of have a handshake agreement about this with clubs. An assumption on my part? Yes.
And it's not just that it was Messi, but if he had been under a long term contract at the time, it probably wouldn't have worked.
I kind of remember now because he did try. I kind of remember it was when he was doing a contract with him and wondering why that wasn't part of the deal.
Also, the U20 World Cup isn't the Olympics. I just got back from a trip to Spain and Portugal. Didn't see or hear the U20 World Cup mentioned once anywhere. [Releases for the Olympics in 2028 are going to be REALLY interesting for the USMNT. Cuz you can easily see our high-end players at the time wanting to attend. Both the u23s and senior players. That's a bridge we'll cross when we get there.] But anyway, the Kochen release sucks but really isn't that big of a crisis. I'm still not sure I know how good Kochen is. I've seen him ACTUALLY PLAY so little. He could be the second coming of Iker Casillas or the second coming of Dominic Cervi. I have no idea.
If only Cervi could have gotten that work permit and played for Celtic... (I can't even remember if Celtic was the team or if it was a WP issue or not. I just remember there was a lot of hat and no cattle with that guy... and a lot of other US players of yesteryear.)
I think Rangers. Cervi should have been called to the MNT as he was from a good family. That was very unortodox idea by one of our friends/posters.
Cerci did sign with Celtic and even made the bench a few times. He just wasn’t good enough to play. Not sure there was a work permit issue at all.
Well, we know why right? To them the rest of the world is basically trash at the game compared to UEFA (with a vague nod to the quality of Argentina and Brazil in Conmebol), it's a kind of chauvinism, and so the U19 and U21 Championships are their big deal (maybe one other U tournament, like U16 or whatever), it's UEFA sides fighting it out to be the best youth side in Europe. That and probably the clubs mattering so much too. The best soccer for them in Europe, so that's their competition. What do they care about New Zealand, or South Africa, or Paraguay, or Saudi Arabia etc? They don't care. It's irrelevant. their tournament is chock full of the best, so that's what matters. Even the Olympics is something they barely care about unless they're hosting. We are both oldsters so I think both of us remember that historically the only UEFA sides that seemed to care about competing in these competitions historically were Spain and maybe Portugal. In general, they just don't care. This is part of the reason I think Argentina, Brazil, Nigeria (more U17 but still), Spain, Mexico, and lately Uruguay have had such storied histories over the past few decades in the tournaments. UEFA just doesn't care, but we do, to some extent anyway, and Spain, perhaps Portugal, at least in the more distant past (seemed like with the Figo generation, they became interested in the youth tournaments, at least for a while). It's interesting to note the history in terms of Final Four appearances: Argentina: 6 titles, 8 final 4 appearences. Brazil: 5 titles, 9 final 4 appearances. Uruguay: 1 title, 7 final 4 appearances After those 3 Conmebol sides with 9, 8 and 7 Final Four runs, the next best, are countries like Portugal, Ghana, and Spain with 4 or 5 piece. I wonder why it seems so clear Conmebol cares so much. I get why UEFA doesn't, why Conmebol? I wonder if it just comes down to the fact that qualification for the tournament via Comnebol has always been far easier than UEFA (since they don't weight the tournament so heavily towards UEFA like they do the senior WC).
I wonder if Bosman + the EU have made Europeans less nationalistic in the “I love Belgium/France/Germany” kind of way than South Americans. At least about sports.
Each country is probably different. There's a national pride thing that's different in each country. Its probably a club versus country issue in some places. That clubs aren't going to release players for these types of youth competitions. They even view their own reserve team games as more important. And the fans are a reflection of that. When I lived in Germany, the youth teams were just viewed as a means to an end. That end is the senior team. Winning games or trophies with youth teams is not a goal in itself. Look at Germany's recent history at the U20 World Cup? They haven't even qualified for the last three. I'm sure they don't care one iota. I just travelled for two weeks thru Northern Spain from Cataluna, Aragon, Basque country, Cantabria, Asturias, Galicia, etc. (before heading South to Portugal). We acknowledge there's regionalism in Spain, but you don't really understand it until you're there. Until you go to the museums and start understanding RECENT history. Honestly, you understand why it was so crazy for U20 Jonathan Gomez to sign for Real Sociedad when you're there. The pride that club has in developing Basque players trumps all. They'd rather lose with Basque players than win with foreign players. I asked the workers at the Sociedad gift shop in downtown San Sebastian about Jonathan Gomez. None of them had ever heard of him. An American? In our academy? Why? [They take great pride in Xabi Alonso. Gomez's coach. Xabi was born in Basque country and started his pro career at Sociedad.] I suspect that whole northern part of Spain could care less about some Spanish youth national teams. Could literally care less about the U20 World Cup. They're obsessed with soccer, but not international soccer. I saw multiple Portugal national team stores in Porto. Didn't see a single one for two weeks in Spain. Maybe they have those stores in Madrid. I don't know. But they sure as hell don't in Barcelona. There's no evidence anywhere in La Rioja or Navarre or Euskadi that Spain ever won a single World Cup or European Championships. Zero. Lamine Yamal was everywhere in Barcelona. He wasn't wearing a Spain jersey a single time. Only Barcelona. Only ever Barcelona. But anyway, back to this US U20 team.
Yeah I've heard people in Barcelona couldn't give less of a shit about the Spanish national team. Some of them even root against them
Anyone find the game on TV today for US v Italy. Says it will be on Fox Sports, but when I don't see it anywhere in the TV guide.
I'm seeing FS2 showing a replay of the game at 9 ET, which is annoying, but I'm not free to watch live anyway.
Its true in a lot of Spain. Its hard to understand until you travel to these parts of the world. In the Basque Country, Muted Cheers for Spain’s Soccer Team - The New York Times Spain won the 2024 European Championships. Spain won the 2023 Olympics. Spain could easily win this 2025 U20 World Cup. .......................and yet, I don't think the majority of the Spain that I visited would care one iota.