The 2023 u17 Thread

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by David Kerr, Dec 24, 2020.

  1. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Half of MLS is also 10 years old or younger. The homegrown initiative itself is less than 15 years old.

    MLS is still in its infancy on the developmental pathway. We're still figuring out the reserve team structure for development between the academy and first teams as well.

    There is such a tendency to overanalyze callups on the U17 level.
    A lot of development happens after this level. Who here watched Chris Richards as a U17? Gangly skinny kid who looked very raw. Certainly so when he arrived at FCD. Lots of skepticism about him on these boards (including myself) when we first got to see him regularly. Even when we saw him at the Dallas Cup in 2018 as an 18 year old. Three years later and he's a frickin' Bundesliga starter.
     
  2. Benny Dargle

    Benny Dargle Member+

    Jul 23, 2008
    LA
    #227 Benny Dargle, Nov 1, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2021
    The whole development v. recruitment debate is tired and too black and white. Every kid develops in phases and there are zero players who develop entirely, or even most importantly, in only one phase. Every pro player can point to a period before they entered a pro environment where they developed something. You could go back to their parents or older siblings and say learning to walk and run was critical, but those are baseline skills and so the industry standard is to establish an age where specialized development really starts. That's why FIFA's training compensation system used for international signings provides compensation at the time a player signs his first pro contract or transfer to a new club before age 23 to all clubs who worked with the player starting at age 12 and ending at age 21.

    It's also true that very few players develop by staying at the same level with the same teammates, and the same coaches, staying all the while at what some might call their "comfort zone." So, virtually every pro club "recruits" players who developed elsewhere and then adds to the development mix by throwing them together with stronger, more committed teammates, higher-level competition, full-time coaches, and making them compete for their spots. Some do all of that better than others, but I don't know of any pro player who has skipped this step and stayed where they are to "develop" into a real pro. The closest example would be players who stay at the same club for years and then go play at college before the MLS draft, but that's not really different in terms of the process of leaving your comfort zone, competing for your spot with different coaches and playing with and against higher-level teammates. Barca Academy in Casa Grande AZ, which someone mentioned, is no less a recruitment place than any other pro-affiliated MLS Academy. In fact, very few of their pro caliber players start at Barca before U16/U17 and most only play there a year or two and are recruited (and given scholarships) after they have already shown pro, or at least high college, potential at a non-pro club. The players who start there younger tend to be "filler" players who get college opportunities, but those aren't their pro success stories. Even Matthew Hoppe, who is the closest to a "came out of nowhere player" who switched positions at Barca and blossomed, had already played a year at Galaxy Academy and a couple of years at Irvine Strikers in DA before moving. He wasn't thought to be European professional good, but he developed the technical skills in top academy/club environments long before he went to Barca.

    Can you do this by going to a non-pro environment (or, in the US, a non-MLS Academy)? Maybe, but it's difficult. If you start low down enough, then you of course need to make a few stops along the way. Eventually, however, the best players gravitate to the pro environments even if those coaches aren't necessarily the best coaches etc. That's why the modern top prospect who isn't currently at a pro environment is being recruited by one even if it means a move across the country to live on their own with a host family. You can hold out longer in some areas of the country where the talent is stronger and the club options are greater, but it's hard to find many examples of a player getting signed to a pro contract directly from a non-pro youth club anymore.

    In the absence of a domestic training comp system (not every country has one and FIFA doesn't require it), the best US clubs acknowledge, in print and on social media, what clubs their players came from, both to recognize their contributions to the kid and to help those clubs attract new players, just like college teams list where there players played before and pro teams list where their players went to college or played before.

    At the same time, the worst youth clubs/coaches jealously guard their players from other coaches or other opportunities, rather than creating the trust and line of communication that enables them to counsel the players and their parents about what opportunities are real moves and what are just lateral or even downward. Those coaches/clubs are only concerned with their own wins and losses and don't think about the benefits of advertising on social media the successful moves of their players. More often than not, those coaches didn't really do much develop their best players, which is why they try to hold them as long as possible so others won't figure out that they haven't really been developing a pipeline of players, but rather got lucky with a transformational one. Then, they do the same thing that they criticize the pro academies for doing - which is go out and recruit the next player who will make them look good.
     
  3. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I don't buy the age reason. Some of the worst teams are among the original teams.

    Atlanta came in with a full Academy set up buy buying local academies. You can affiliate easily. Where every expansion team came in, there is youth soccer with elite regional teams.

    Some teams want to do this and some don't. Every high profile sale should spur more teams getting involved. You really want every high ceiling 17 yo in a pro setup and not having to play in the NCAA.
     
  4. ChuckMe92

    ChuckMe92 Member+

    Jun 23, 2016
    Columbus, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fernando Delgado's IG clearly shows he's in USYNT training, so he turned down a Mexico U17 call-up. Mexico has a camp going on right now too and their English language Twitter account still has a post up with his name on their roster for that camp, one of three goalkeepers.

    He is probably genuinely undecided and not necessarily leaning US, but it is notable he turned down a Mex invite. Some other players would have stayed with them upon that first opportunity.
     
    matt021d, ussoccer97531, Winoman and 3 others repped this.
  5. Campeones123

    Campeones123 Member

    Barcelona
    Brazil
    Sep 2, 2021
    A few of the Mexican boys in the USYNT camp were called into the Mexico camp, however the camp invitations for Mexico came after they already committed to the USYNT.
     
  6. MuchoTakeItEasy

    LAFC
    United States
    May 16, 2015
    Land of the Free
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
    ussoccer97531 repped this.
  7. bballshawn

    bballshawn Member+

    Feb 5, 2014
    Delaware
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    We'll take him at the Union Academy
     
    Boysinblue, JUnionFan and gogorath repped this.
  8. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not so fast!
     
    Tactical Hipster repped this.
  9. Luksarus

    Luksarus Member

    United States
    Jul 27, 2018
    Next stop in the Crew?;)
     
  10. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Not a chance in hell FCD would trade his homegrown rights to the Union.

    I wonder if he was able to get a Euro passport? We're not too far from his 16th birthday.

    We'll just has to see where he's going before we can analyze this. I mean, the Aaron Heard move still makes legitimately zero sense to me. So these moves don't have to make any sense.
     
  11. run_it_out

    run_it_out Member

    Earthquakes
    United States
    Jun 19, 2018
    Is there any chance we hear updates from the camp?
     
  12. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    With this federation, I wouldn’t expect it.
     
    SCSAutism and Patrick167 repped this.
  13. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Publicly not really, word is circulating among private circles
     
  14. ChicagoFutbol

    ChicagoFutbol Member

    Liverpool
    United States
    Feb 26, 2020
    I think you nailed it. FCD upset about his European ambitions and blocked his YNT call up. So Corcoran got upset and now this. Non-soccer related political nonsense.
     
    ussoccer97531 repped this.
  15. ChicagoFutbol

    ChicagoFutbol Member

    Liverpool
    United States
    Feb 26, 2020
    Your best '06 in the country, Corcoran, did not make the YNT '06 roster a couple weeks ago. Care to comment? Do you believe the hearsay FCD comments about his recent fall off in development or is something rotten in Denmark?
     
  16. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Corcoran’s development has slowed down but him not making the youth national team camp was a shocker to me. I’ve watched Dallas games and the YNT ID center for Texas and he was the best player overall

    This could be an attempt to kick start his work ethic which has seemed to be slumping as he looks like he is moving at 50% in games and not fully trying. It looks like he’s just going through the motions instead of completely taking over games like he should. The only other natural 6 in the camp was Edgar Bazan so it made even less sense to not see Corcoran there
     
    derrick mize and ChicagoFutbol repped this.
  17. ChicagoFutbol

    ChicagoFutbol Member

    Liverpool
    United States
    Feb 26, 2020
    The call up snub is an attempt to kickstart his work ethic by FCD, or by Federation?

     
  18. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe both. It’s the only potential reason I can think of for not including him. The next up 6 would be Edgar Bazan and Corcoran is a better player. Bento Estrela would also be another solid 6 option as long as his growth spurt (he’s easily 6’3 now) and injuries haven’t set him back severely
     
  19. Peretz48

    Peretz48 Member+

    Nov 9, 2003
    Los Angeles
     
  20. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I might as well do an update on the best 23 since I haven’t in a long time.

    GK: Charlie Reed, Nick Bishop, Carlito Saylon
    DF: Matthew Schenfeld, Drew Baiera (‘07), Brian Alanis, Luis Rivera (‘07), Dane Agustin, Zach Stanton, Agnaldo Germano, Michael Dunne
    MF: Matthew Corcoran, Bento Estrela, Adrian Gill, Jude Wellings, Luis Moreno, Nelson Hernandez (‘07), Miles Perkovich, Owen Presthus, Bajung Darboe
    FW: Justin Ellis (‘07), Tomo Allen (‘07), Axel Kei (‘07)

    Reed
    Schenfeld-Agustin-Stanton-Alanis
    Corcoran
    Gill-Wellings
    Perkovich-Ellis-Presthus

    Strengths:

    • The overall team. This age group is looking very good, in large part due to the strength of the 06’s. The 07’s are a very lopsided age group. There are some big strengths (CB, CF), and some clear weaknesses (almost everywhere else). The strengths of the 07’s compliment the weaknesses of the 06’s in most areas, which is fortunate for us.
    • The 8/10’s of this age group. A huge abundance of players in these positions.
    • Fullbacks. Fullbacks are always an area that could be a question mark, but I think that this group of fullbacks will be good.
    Weaknesses:

    • Lack of holding midfielder depth. I don’t see more than one real quality #6 in this age group (Corcoran). We have a bunch of other midfielders that could do the job in a pinch (Estrela, Wellings, Moreno, Gill, Hernandez), and maybe we could convert a fullback or CB (Rivera, Da Costa), but we could benefit from some better #6’s emerging.
    • All of our best CF’s are 07’s. I don’t think you get to #6 on the CF depth chart before you find an ‘06 (Sipic). It’s good that all our best CF’s in this age group are 07’s as opposed to there are no good CF’s in this age group. The 07’s saved the 06’s there, but it’s a challenge and hopefully the coaching staff acknowledges it. I don’t expect that 06’s won’t get caps, but when the games matter pick the best players. If they are all 07’s, you pick all 07’s.
     
    derrick mize and Winoman repped this.
  21. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Any news on Corcoran? Wonder if there's a chance he goes back since the coaching has changed. I doubt it since I don't think he was MLS ready yet.
     
  22. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is news but nothing that can be announced yet until the family or club deems it to be okay. He isn’t heading back to Dallas. Sadly he isn’t heading to Crew either
     
  23. ChicagoFutbol

    ChicagoFutbol Member

    Liverpool
    United States
    Feb 26, 2020
    SD Loyal was the old rumor a month ago and the USL Championship club makes a lot of sense even if Landon doesn’t play him because 1) he’ll be training daily with men and 2) the USL is open to negotiating versus most MLS clubs offer take-it-or-leave-it contracts to their HG using HG territory and TC to block alternative paths.
     
    Pegasus repped this.
  24. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I gotta be honest that I was not aware there’s an upcoming U-17 camp. I wonder when this is.

     
    Winoman and gogorath repped this.
  25. Usa soccer11

    Usa soccer11 Member

    Man city
    Brazil
    Dec 29, 2020
    Hearing u17 camp jan22 - 29 4 houston dynamo players called up
     
    Peretz48, David Kerr and ussoccer97531 repped this.

Share This Page