The 2021 U-20 Qualifying Thread

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Peretz48, Mar 18, 2019.

  1. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I don't doubt that. But it is almost always more cost effective to settle than to litigate. Unless someone is caught running a child porn ring on their work computer, most terminations in the USA come with a settlement. This case is not as simple as that and would need discover and depositions and witnesses and court time. That adds up to more than what a youth coach was probably making. And what if you lost? Even if the chance of that is 10%, but you would have to pay substantial damages, that also quickly adds up.

    Most coaches in pro sports have guaranteed contracts and almost all get paid most of it when fired for non-performance. JK famously was getting paid and maybe still is. The settlement usually comes with a gag on discussing the situation and many times comes with a non-compete.

    Again, I don't know anything. But if Brian is still being paid by the Galaxy or got his contract paid as a lump sum, I could see him taking time to travel and learn, work on the 3four3 coaching business, and take his time looking for a great situation. Which is what it seems like he is doing.

    People who are blackballed and bankrupted because of it are usually more bitter, more talkative about it, and more desperate.

    Just speculating.
     
  2. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The 343 guys are literally the most bitter people towards MLS and Ussoccer that I have ever seen by a very wide margin... If one of the main 343 guys doesnt tell MLS or ussoccer to ******** off then it's a very quiet day for them.

    John literally sent out 20 anger tweets towards MLS the day that they announced the new league and all he does is channel the thoughts of the 343 brand which is led by Brian and Gary...
     
  3. kba4life1

    kba4life1 Member+

    Jul 14, 2010
    Irvine, CA
    Jon is just flat out absurd. He called out Scuffed for not grilling Doyle when Doyle said Pomykal could be world class. Belz and Gregg do that shit as a passion project on a volunteer basis, it’s not like they’re cracking watergate with hard hitting journalism.

    They’re absurdity makes it tough to take them seriously at all.
     
  4. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    It's not even that Scuffed isn't professional, it's just standard interviewing. Doyle, though the 343 guys don't like it, is a media expert, and their job in an interview is to draw out interesting opinions and points of view from him.

    343 hates Doyle because Doyle is an MLS guy, and so they think that Belz and Gregg's job is to entrap Doyle, argue with him and prove he's wrong. That's not really the job of an interviewer.

    I don't think Pomykal is going to be World Class, but 343 has always dogged him. I'll take him over Mendez and Efra, personally.
     
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  5. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I think there anti-USSF stance and pro open pyramid stance is from long before Uly signed with Wolfsburg. I don't consider it bitter, more idealism.

    I do think if there was an open pyramid they would have started a team with Brian as the coach and tried to work their way up to the top. It can't be done in this country. You can't get anywhere with sporting merit, it is all USSF grants and who do you know. They are bitter about that no doubt. It is part of their sales pitch too since they compete with the USSF licensing coarses in a way.

    But they have always been like that about those subjects.

    In this country and media market, they are a different voice. They have their own biases, but those biases are different than others. Almost all media in the USA related to soccer has a bias, except for the small independent places like Chasing A Cup where your excellent stuff has been published.
     
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  6. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Doyle specifically attacked the Kleibans following Uly and Mendez moving to Europe. Not until Alex signed with Ajax did he not take any opportunity to attack them. That feud has been going along nicely.

    Again, they have their biases but so does Doyle. So does Tenorio and others. They have valid criticisms of Pomykal. But just like Doyle craps on young players, especially those that leave MLS for free, time can often prove such hot takes to be wrong or dumb.

    Personally, I think they go overboard criticizing Pomykal as a 10 and not discussing what he brings at other positions. But Doyle can also be unhinged in criticizing Mendez. You have to know the bias and try and look through it critically.
     
  7. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Everyone has their bias. And Doyle's a bit of a troll. But he's a good analyst.

    It's not the job of a soccer podcast about USMNT and specifically USMNT youth, to attack a media member's opinion in the cause of someone else's feud.
     
  8. kba4life1

    kba4life1 Member+

    Jul 14, 2010
    Irvine, CA
    I really feel as though the criticism of Doyle being some kind of shill for MLS is unwarranted. Of course he’s not going to blow up his employer publicly a la Wahl, but he’s long been critical of MLS teams not giving their domestic youth a real chance. I’m pretty sure he started the #playyouryouth or whatever hashtag years ago for goodness sakes.

    As for Mendez, I dunno how anyone could’ve watched the U20 World Cup and not have seen the glaring physical deficiencies in his game. He was gassed early in the 2nd half, every time. Fitness isn’t just about Ballack esque lung busting runs into the box, it’s about sprinting a few yards to become an outlet. His fitness was just shot out there, it became a hindrance.
     
  9. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mendez' lack of mobility, underwhelming u-20 WC performance, and in the Eerste Divisie to date would naturally bring out criticism from actual unbiased onlookers.

    For Doyle being an employee to have a built-in bias, he does a good job of limiting it. Can't expect none considering they butter his bread.

    In spite of not being an employee of league(s), Gary's far more biased against players in some than Doyle. It's due to Gary's giant ego and past experiences w/ MLS.

    Leads Gary to throwing players like Morris and Pax under the bus. The attitude he portrays is if you're associated w/ MLS it erases your ability, but leave can be good.

    Fans who have that basic ideology toward domestic-based players, while ironically being fans of the USNT, naturally love the Kleibans. Gary's like their cult-leader.
     
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  10. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Doyle’s gotten worse in the last year. He’s pretty intolerable at this point.
     
  11. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Almost as insufferable as Wahl.
     
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  12. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    For me he is the best American soccer journalist by wide margin. Would be even hard to name the second.
     
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  13. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Hate to say it but I'm not surprised.
     
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  14. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Overall I’m still a fan of Doyle because he does give very good criticism of players while also good praises. While he does criticize Mendez, he praises Richie Ledezma. He does have times where he is overboard though (Paxton Pomykal has a very high ceiling but Doyle makes him look like the second coming of the Messiah himself). But Doyle is one of the very few people who has actively watched the youth for a long time and actively tries to preach to teams to play the kids which I think everyone in here can respect given this is a youth focused forum.

    The most important thing for those with a voice in my opinion is to do the work watching film and to not be biased. It is incredibly evident in Brian’s videos that he does not watch film of the prospects. It is even more evident that Gary does not watch film unless they are either from Southern California or Brian coaches/plays against. Gary’s opinions on players 343 does not have signed or Brian does not coach is very biased and he pretty much does nothing but bash them with very few exceptions. I am confident that numerous people on this chat board would do a better job because some people on here like me find real enjoyment watching games and evaluating talent.
     
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  15. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When it comes to actual legit analysts/journalists he’s the smartest one out there about the youth which I appreciate. Very few analysts actually sitting down and watching the youth national teams and the DA. Tbh even most passionate USMNT fans don’t even like to.
     
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  16. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    It’s not a great crop, so that’s not saying much.

    I think the best journalists are @bshredder, @ChuckMe92, and @zlebmada, to name a few. I can’t tolerate the ones who will write puff pieces about Altidore or Bradley. I think most of the ones at MLS, ESPN, SI, The Athletic lost any credibility with how they covered the disaster 2018 qualifying campaign. They refused to put pressure on the biggest failures of the group because they wanted to keep their sources and personal relationships.

    I have less bad things to say about the ones that cover the youth game, but there’s also less of a market for their work, so they aren’t as high profile and their mediums of work aren’t as traditional, in all cases. They have less close personal relationships to the players. They aren’t trying to cover for their former teammates like Twellman or Gomez.

    Most of the soccer media in this country is atrocious. I think 95% of them are complete hacks. Doyle, Ives, Wahlstrom, Carlisle, McIntyre, Tenorio, Stejskal. Take your pick. I don’t think any are good football journalists.
     
  17. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I personally don’t count these guys as journalists. These are the guys that I think really set the bar for what i consider to be a truly informed USMNT fan who genuinely love the sport and supporting the USA. If we’re counting these guys, the other ones I think have high authority are USAProspects, Charlie Kennan, Matt Hartman, Watke, and Halfspaces.
     
  18. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    #768 DHC1, May 21, 2020
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
    When one views Doyle as an MLS PR person rather than a journalist, it’s easier to like him.

    but it’s important to recognize that he isn’t a journalist but a mouthpiece similar to Dave Spadaro who actually works for the Philadelphia Eagles as a “journalist”.

    Here’s how an actual journalist views Dave:
    Eagles News: Deciphering Dave Spadaro’s comments about Alshon Jeffery
    https://www.bleedinggreennation.com...hon-jeffery-philadelphia-wide-receiver-nfl-wr
     
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  19. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    I wouldn't even mind it so much if so many of them didn't think it necessary to 1. advocate for some players over others when it is obvious who pays your wages, or 2. Defend (or abstain from criticizing) elements of the US Soccer landscape because of fear of losing access.
     
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  20. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    I'll take this as a compliment.
     
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  21. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    #771 Eighteen Alpha, May 21, 2020
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
    Weird how that works, isn't it? Because @ChuckMe92, @bshredder or @zlebmada don't write for an established corporate entity, you don't consider them journalists - and to be fair, most people wouldn't either. Yet I would wager that most of us BS faithful get far more insightful information from them and a handful of others (some of whom you mentioned) than from the talking heads at ESPNFC, MLSSoccer.com, Fox Sports, SBI, BR, etc. I like Steve Goff (WaPo), but on more than a few occasions I have pointed out inaccuracies to him (which to his credit he corrected) in his weekly Yanks Abroad roll up. The crew on SiriusXM FC (apart from maybe Jason Davis) seem daily to wait for the corporate approved narrative before making any substantive remarks about US players abroad or US National Team matches. I enjoy a lot of these shows, some of the time, but I get far more insightful analysis of the state of US Soccer on this website, than I do from them.
    Part of this, of course, is just part of a larger narrative on the state of US media in the internet age. I haven't watched a single US network news broadcast since January of 2016 (I used to regularly sample HNN, the networks, CNN, Fox News, NPR and local channels). I probably get more solid information on a daily basis from Joe Rogan (and other podcasts) than anyone else.
    To put a finer tip on the point @David Kerr, I consider you more of an unbiased Soccer journalist than the likes of Matt Doyle.

    Edit: I think a day will come when we consider podcasts as legitimate as "The Evening News with Walter Cronkite."
     
  22. largegarlic

    largegarlic Member+

    Jul 2, 2007
    I wonder if there's a distinction to be made between journalists and opinion columnists. People who post here like @ChuckMe92, @bshredder or @zlebmada do great work getting interviews or digging up legit rumors before they hit the larger outlets, all without much (or any) bias. That's pure journalism for me.

    I'd consider Doyle more of an opinion columnist or maybe analyst. He's not presenting word-for-word interviews with some MLS player or matter of factly reporting on transfer rumors--he's giving his opinion on a particular issue. I don't always agree with Doyle's opinions, but I appreciate his columns since he always has evidence to back up his takes. If he says that young player X doesn't have the defensive awareness to be a #6, he'll drop in a clip of young player X, say, getting sucked upfield and allowing a dangerous counter. Or if he says that young player Y is a great ball winner, he'll drop in some stats about challenges won or passes intercepted (or whatever the exact terms are). Of course, there are times when he's cherry picking clips/stats to support his view, but at least he's offering some evidence that you can rationally assess and disagree with or not.
     
  23. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    @bshredder is certainly a journalist who works for ASN and others. Except for a Tab Ramos blindspot ;-), he is very unbiased. In terms of people published online and off, he and Soccer America are the most unbiased.

    Podcasts are generally not beholden to anyone. But as they get bigger, they get more mainstream and don't want to ruffle USSF or MLS feathers. Might not even be conscious, just being nice to people that pay for your junkets. Some hotels, dinners, and tickets to the All-Star game can turn heads. Or feel you need guests.

    It is sad that the guys who make a good living seem most reliant on access and it colors their commentary. To them, and they have been named here, it is all about scoops and insider fed info and staying tight with Arena or the Bradley's.

    This thread has now gone completely off the rails. Always surprised there wasn't a media discussion thread around here.
     
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  24. SilentAssassin

    Apr 16, 2007
    St. Louis
    I don't think Brian Straus is as afraid to ruffle feathers as some others are. He wrote the famous 2013 Sporting News piece about the divisions in the locker room under Klinsmann, for which Klinsmann never forgave him. I also remember him asking some pointed questions of Don Garber about moving the Crew. He seemed to have been on sabbatical or something for a while, but he is writing again for SI. I don't think he covers youth players, though.
     
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  25. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My award for best journalist/columnist/whatever you want to call is @bshredder

    Definitely the most professional, IMO.
     

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