The 2021 U-20 Qualifying Thread

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Peretz48, Mar 18, 2019.

  1. charlie kennan

    charlie kennan Red Card

    Feb 23, 2020
    really good insight on this u20 cycle
     
  2. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    They really have to stop smiling so much.
     
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  3. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think when the u20 WC gets pushed back, they will adjust the rules like they did with the Olympics. It will probably become a u21 World Cup. Then we will have an extra year to evaluate players and see which ones develop and fulfill their potential, and which ones will stagnate or flop. When that happens, I bet the fed brings far too many who have stagnated just because they are “more physically mature” and “more experienced” like they do every cycle and in every age group.
     
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  4. autobus39

    autobus39 Member+

    Jun 28, 2006
    Scranton, PA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
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  5. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I'm curious what players you think fall into those categories around the last couple of U20 and U17 World Cups?
     
  6. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Not the poster you quoted, but IMO

    99: Real, Rennicks, Scott (not bad, but USSF rates him way too high)
    00: Dos Santos, Amaya, Akinola
    01: Ochoa (similar situation to Scott), Sepulveda, both Butler's, Hawkins, Vassilev
    02: Odunze, Kayo, Saldana, Armour, Tolkin, Anderson, Yow, Busio
    03: Krenecki, Kinzner, Sealy (similar situation to Scott and Ochoa), Freeman (similar situation to them, as well), Bohui (another similar situation)
    04: Slonina (another similar situation), Tanton, Brummett

    Those are the ones I can think of at the moment. I'm sure if I went more into depth, I'd find another 10 or more. Not all of those players are bad players either. Some of them can and still do contribute to their age groups, but USSF, like any federation, does tend to keep retreads in the pool or in certain roles in the pool past what they show on the field. The squad selection has been pretty horrible the last year or two, and while they claim its not about a scout shortage (like the coaching shortage), I think not having a full set of employees at every age group hurts the scouting of these age groups and the roster selection.
     
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  7. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Does the ussf rate Sealy too high? He was the clear standout at the Nike Friendlies and he is still physically maturing
     
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  8. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A lot of the ones @ussoccer97531 mentioned. Although I think he listed a lot of guys who the fed rates too highly instead of just the ones they are bringing because they are older and more mature. I’m mostly going for the “not very talented but bigger and stronger than the younger prospect we could take instead” types of players

    2017 u20 Tommy Redding, Eryk Williamson
    2017 u17 Tyler Shaver, Akil Watts, Jacobo Reyes
    2019 u20 definitely Matthew Real, Rennicks
    2019 u17... I didn’t really feel like Wicky had a good enough grasp on the pool to make educated decisions. So I don’t really see many on that roster. Maybe Jasson or Dietz.
    2020 Olympic... Glad, Dotson, Mihailovic

    tbh I don’t rate Lewis very highly but I guess he has some use as a late game offensive sub.
     
  9. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Yes. He’s been in nearly every or every ‘03 YNT camp and he played up an age group with the 02’s at the Nike Friendlies in 2017.
     
  10. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Here's my recap:

    "He's good, Pat."

    "Yeah, he's good, Austin."

    Gets to next player:

    "He's good, Pat."

    "Yeah, he's good, Austin."
     
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  11. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
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  12. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When he was younger he definitely didn’t deserve the u17 call up. But his nike friendlies performances showed why he’s so highly rated. He was one of the biggest losers of the pandemic because he had been in hot form and would have made a very big step this year in his play.
     
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  13. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was about to post the same thing. I used to wonder what the big deal was with him and thought it was all because of who his dad was. This Spring he changed my mind. I can't say he should be there over others that I haven't seen though. I can only say that in the last year he looks way better.
     
  14. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    After listening to this, I decided to check out that 5-1 LAG II win over RGV that happened right before Rudy Gobert brought on Q Day... wanted to share some insight and didn’t know where to put it. Figured here was the best place because all I cared about was Dos’ u20 players.

    Dunbar had a fantastic goal on the counter and an assist but wasn’t great otherwise. I think he has talent and is good 1v1 but fails to make an impact in the middle of the field and has questionable decision making if he can’t breeze past his defender or play the final ball. Still on the radar, but needs to improve.

    The older he gets, the more I think Mauricio Cuevas is a legit USMNT prospect. He’s the type of player you don’t really notice for most of the game because he just does his job. Kind of reminds me of Reggie Cannon that way. But Cuevas will flick a header on 20 yards right to the wings feet at midfield that allows the wing to take off on the counter. That’s exactly what happened on Dunbar’s goal.

    You don’t always notice it at the time, but he just makes the right play so often. And his set pieces have the potential to be Acosta-esque.

    He still needs to work on his defense and I think he’s not the most athletic of backs, but I don’t see any glaring holes in his game and he has had “wow” moments multiple times in almost every game I’ve seen him play. It seems he wants to try his luck in Europe since his contract is just for this year and he’s only on a USL contract. I definitely think he has that type of potential and a Bundesliga team could do worse than to give him a shot. But if that doesn’t work out, the Galaxy have used him a bit on the left. It’s worth noting that the Galaxy’s lone left back prospect, Diedie Traore, seems to have played himself back to USL level. I’ve absolutely never seen a player look worse in a 5-1 win than Traore did in this game. If RGV had any finishing ability, Traore would have been directly responsible for 3 or 4 goals instead of just the 1.

    Despite leading 2-0, los Dos really were absolutely dominated in the first half. Not just because of Traore; the centerbacks were pretty bad too. It actually changed quite a bit when Johnny Perez came on in the second half. They immediately scored and put the game out of reach. His ability to run at defenders and make the right pass is excellent, especially on the counter. He’s also a very good finisher. However, the issue for him when I’ve seen him is maintaining that level of play for 90 minutes. In fact, I don’t remember ever seeing him go 90. Hopefully he gets stronger and more consistent because he definitely is one of those players who has the talent to emerge.

    I guess it’s worth noting that MOTM was probably Eric Lopez. Hard to picture a keeper being MOTM in a 5-1 win, but he really kept them in the game in the first half and then had a few great saves in the second that prevented Houston from getting any sort of momentum for a comeback. He can look a little panicky at times and it doesn’t seem like he’s ever asked to play the ball much, but I can’t imagine he’s much worse than Bingham at this point. If anyone has any insight into why he is still stuck in USL, I’d be interested to hear it.
     
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  15. David Kerr

    David Kerr Member+

    United States
    Oct 18, 2019
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Both Mauricio Cuevas and Johnny Perez are elite and are 100% long term USMNT prospects. Cuevas could potentially break into the u20’s who are weaker at right back. He should’ve been with the u17’s.
     
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  16. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I know he’s not eligible for this team, but I thought the same exact thing about Lopez. It’s remarkable how often people watch him play and think he plays well, but he never breaks through at LAG or with USYNT’s. Opportunity matters and some are unluckier with that than others. That might be all there is to it.
     
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  17. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Only thing I can figure is he doesn’t organize the defense or communicate well. That’s not exactly something you can see on tape
     
  18. Thundering165

    Thundering165 Member+

    North Carolina FC
    United States
    May 1, 2017
    Raleigh


    Brian Kleiban’s review of the U20 talent
     
  19. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    “No knock on this guy, but here are 4 knocks on this guy.”

    I still don’t understand how a failed U17 coach is somehow an authority figure on the subject
     
  20. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Because there are some that don't mind being talked down to, and need a cult figure to follow. This guy and his brother use the typical cliches about soccer in this country, and talk to their followers like they need to learn from them because he's a real expert. Their followers are exactly the type of people that fit the "Americans don't understand football" stereotype that you hear around the world.
     
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  21. don Lamb

    don Lamb Member+

    mine
    United States
    Aug 31, 2017
    He's not a failed coach, he's a failed character via his proximity to the 3four3 cult.

    As a coach, he most certainly deserves an opportunity such as U17 US Head Coach.

    As for character, being so closely associated with a jv media production that constantly bashes US soccer and a potential hack of an agent/brother that you are perceived to be leading players away from your current club with is not a good look. Add in the fact that you sent a potentially generational talent to play for Mexico (I get that he is "bringing Efra back," but that doesn't completely negate the previous atrocity), and it's pretty much impossible to envision Brian with a US camp (at least as the head man) any time soon.

    I respect him and think these recordings have been really good. It's also a little refreshing to hear a tiny bit of boot licking toward the US as opposed to his usual tone. I'll listen to him talk about youth talent all day, but I hope he winds up with a big career as a coach.
     
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  22. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t even disagree with everything he says or even his general point that we need higher expectations of our players. I just have a problem with this idea of “I know everything and I’m the only one who has to explain this to you because my way is the only way to do this.” Ive never once heard him reference Germany, Italy or their players when he was talking about players should try to be developing. It’s all a very specific type of player
     
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  23. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You have to try to really hard to get fired if you’re as successful as he was for the Galaxy. So yes, I consider him a failure. Maybe his tactics and techniques were good, but his attitude sure as hell wasnt.

    If I was a sporting director/GM, there’s no way in hell I’d hire him after that. If he’s that willing to go against his team’s best interest, how can you ever trust him enough to hire him and coach your players? It’s pretty hard for me to imagine him getting a coaching job any time soon. At least in this country.
     
  24. SilentAssassin

    Apr 16, 2007
    St. Louis
    I will fully admit to not being qualified to judge his knowledge of tactics or player ratings or whatever, but I think there's something to be said for having a diversity of approaches in this country. If you're a player who thrives in a possession-based system, I think it's good to have some youth coaches who are looking for those types of players.

    Our country is much more diverse than other countries that have a well-defined style of play. France is probably the closest, but they don't have as much of a Latino influence. If we eventually want to take advantage of that diversity, we'll need coaches at the top who can incorporate the best players of different styles, but we'll also need coaches throughout the country who are very good at finding players for their own specific style and developing them.

    I don't think we should be systematically overlooking the types of players that Kleiban likes, or the more athletic players that we've traditionally preferred. Maybe that means we have one luxury no.10 with a team of athletes around him, or maybe it means we have a few players that we use when we expect to have most of the possession, but we also have some more physical players that we can use against the best teams. But it's traditionally been very difficult in this country to produce those number 10's. Most MLS teams import them from south america, but that's not really an option for a national team, so i think kleiban or others like him have an important role to play in soccer in this country, even if we don't end up playing his preferred style.
     
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  25. no exit

    no exit Member+

    DC United
    United States
    Nov 20, 2019
    I enjoy that Kleiban only rates people 10/10 or 4 or maybe 5 out of 10. Are you athletic? 4-6 out of ten. Do you have technical ability? TEN OUT OF TEN FOR YOU.

    It's apparently highly difficult in Kleiban's world to be technical but insufficiently athletic. Also puzzlingly for a soccer world with, say, Erling Haaland in it, athletic qualities almost never help distinguish oneself.
     

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