The 2013 Table - Magic Numbers, Tragic Numbers & Other Fishy Figures [R]

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by Knave, Aug 23, 2013.

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  1. Geneva

    Geneva LA for Life

    Feb 5, 2003
    Southern Cal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know what the Knave Bowl is. :oops: But perhaps it become clear in the fullness of time.
     
  2. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Olympia
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    DC v Chivas - the two teams Knave unfalteringly supports, even when they aren't bottom of their respective tables
     
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  3. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    I'm way ahead of you.
    Not exactly. DCU is like my wife. CHV is like my increasingly ugly mistress.
     
  4. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    If United weren't distracted by that pesky USOC (and possible/likely CCL berth), I'm sure they'd be able to give CUSA a better effort and game this weekend.

    Oh, a bilingual mistress. You lucky guy. (Even if she is kinda fugly.)
     
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  5. pate

    pate Member+

    Jun 12, 2007
    Provo, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Using google translate doesn't make you bilingual . . .

    ;)
     
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  6. Eric B

    Eric B Member

    Feb 21, 2000
    the LBC
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That you fell in love with due to your feelings of inadequacy towards your stunningly beautiful neighbor (LAG).:p
     
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  7. tab5g

    tab5g Member+

    May 17, 2002
    Exactly. So maybe Impact de Montreal would make a better mistress option.
     
  8. nlsanand

    nlsanand Member+

    May 31, 2007
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    What mistresses are uglier Italian or Mexican?
     
  9. RafaLarios

    RafaLarios Member+

    Oct 2, 2009
    Medellín
    Club:
    Atletico Nacional
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Goats
     
  10. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    I'm not saying I loved her. But I was motivated to a great degree by my utter hatred of her even more repulsive, older Victoria Street sister. ;)
     
  11. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This thread got weird.
     
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  12. profiled

    profiled Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 7, 2000
    slightly north of a mile high
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Who now 10 years later still looks amazing, unlike both your original choice, and spiteful choice.... ouch.
     
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  13. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    I can't have people thinking this is a serious thread!
    All the looks money can buy. And no soul. Normally I'd make a crack about LA after saying something like that, but instead ...

    [​IMG]

    I tidied up my mobility number table for our dual conference league. As I explained before, this number is about how difficult it would be for a team to leapfrog the team above them, assuming that the team above them maintains their current PPG pace for the rest of the season. For example, how hard would it be for CLB to jump over CHI, if CHI maintains their (quite modest) 1.40 PPG pace for the remainder of the season? To do that, CLB would have to get 2.41 PPG overall during their remaining games. Which is isn't gonna happen.

    What's of interest here other than showing that CLB is even more screwed than maybe we were thinking (though we all knew they were screwed)? It says CHI doesn't have to play that much better to jump over NER, NER has to step up hardly at all to bypass HOU, HOU could move past PHI with a little bit of a run. On the other hand, PHI probably isn't going to surpass NYR, and NYR could much more easily move passed SKC than SKC could move passed MTL. In the west, RSL has a modest hill to climb to leap over SEA. If she had a soul to sell, LAG probably wouldn't have to sell it to overtake RSL. POR is probably stuck in 4th. FCD, VAN and COL are in a fluid situation, and CHV absolutely owns last place.
     
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  14. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Got?
     
  15. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    So... If NYR and SKC have identical records, how is NYR mobility number 1.70 when both teams are at 1.56? If Kansas City maintains their 1.56 pace, wouldn't New York just need to average 1.57 (give or take)? to pass them? I understand the granularity issues with the limited number of games and points remaining, but since both teams have absolutely identical records, the mobility number of the team listed lower should basically match their current rate.

    Or am I missing something.
     
  16. edwardgr

    edwardgr Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @AndyMead, you are missing something and I think @Knave has a slight rounding error.....

    @1.56 ppg and 7 games remaining SKC/RBNY would gain 10.92 points, which is not possible and was therefore rounded to 11 pts. To beat 11 pts SKC/RBNY would need 12 points which actually amounts to 1.71 ppg.
     
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  17. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    You're right. You could flip those two around on the table.

    Both NYR and SKC would need 2.30 PPG during their remaining games to overtake MTL.

    Both NYR and SKC would need 1.70 PPG during their remaining games to overtake the other.

    If only all my errors were slight!
     
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  18. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT RSL and THFC!

    Oct 8, 2006
    Appalachia
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you provide an excellent service that is very well done. You have perspectives on these numbers that I really enjoy.

    Seems to me that a factor missing from the MB# calculation is how much of a reach it is from the team's established PPG. Essentially it quantifies what you are describing above. Mobility Difficulty# I'll call it, MD#... It is the difference between their season-long PPG and the MB#. The larger the difference, the taller the order it is for the team to find that extra gear to move up.

    Code:
    EAST
    Team          MD#
    SKC          0.74
    NYR          0.14
    PHI          0.69
    HOU          0.22
    NER          0.13
    CHI          0.20
    CLB          1.18
    TFC          1.56
    DCU          1.43
    
    WEST
    Team          MD#
    RSL          0.20
    LAG          0.39
    POR          0.78
    COL          0.42
    VAN          0.22
    FCD          0.13
    SJE          0.94
    CHI          2.31
     
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  19. Eric B

    Eric B Member

    Feb 21, 2000
    the LBC
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because nothing says having a soul like being a brand extension of a foreign club with dubious hiring practices...
     
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  20. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT RSL and THFC!

    Oct 8, 2006
    Appalachia
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    On the RSL boards we have a thread called "The Chase" which is our discussion on the various cup competitions and RSL's position in them. RSL has a bye week this weekend which means two things: 1) they get rest and 2) they don't play any games missing players on national team duty. I calculated a quantification of rest that I called the Schedule Congestion Quotient (SCQ). It is the average number of days between matches (including USOC and CCL matches), calculated prior to the midweek matches of a few days ago. This is the result of that calculation with the MD# from above added. Teams with lots of rest and low MD# should have the best chance of moving up.

    Code:
    EAST
    Team         MD#    SCQ
    MON          --      4.45
    SKC          0.74    5.56
    NYR          0.14    7.14
    PHI          0.69    7.00
    HOU          0.22    4.91
    NER          0.13    6.25
    CHI          0.20    5.67
    CLB          1.18    not calc.
    TFC          1.56    not calc.
    DCU          1.43    not calc.
    
    WEST
    Team          MD#    SCQ
    SEA          --      5.40
    RSL          0.20    6.71
    LAG          0.39    4.63
    POR          0.78    6.25
    COL          0.42    7.28
    VAN          0.22    6.38
    FCD          0.13    6.25
    SJE          0.94    5.44
    CHI          2.31    5.67
    
    The first thing that jumps out is that even though LAG has a modest MD# to attain, they have less rest on which to build it, particularly compared to the team above them in the standings. RSL also has more rest on which to build their needed change in gear. Vancouver, even with a low MD# is below a team with comparable to more rest available. New England with low MD# and high rest is likely to overtake Houston who has much less rest. Etc.
     
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  21. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    The mistress must suck a mean...
     
  22. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    I like this. Mobility Number vs Mobility Differential. I'll see about adding it to the occasionally posted table. One reason to keep the MB# around, however, is because it's not just the difference between the established PPG and the MB# that informs level of difficulty. It's also the proximity of the MB# to 3.00 PPG.
     
  23. profiled

    profiled Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 7, 2000
    slightly north of a mile high
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    You'll also need to include squad depth (in particular strength of backups compared to starters) when looking at rest/lack of rest if you want to draw any meaningful conclusions.
     
  24. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT RSL and THFC!

    Oct 8, 2006
    Appalachia
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All of this is BS pushing numbers around. Squad depth? Sure, if you can quantify it... How about remaining schedule difficulty? How about miles traveled? While most teams have games only within one time zone away within MLS, some have matches across country and some have matches in Central America. Go nuts, if you like.
     
  25. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT RSL and THFC!

    Oct 8, 2006
    Appalachia
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here are 4 quick measures of squad depth based on minutes played for LAG and RSL's top 25 contributing players. All of them favor RSL, in my opinion, because they indicate fewer players dominating playing time at the top and more players at the bottom contributing. If you want to begin analyzing individual player's contributions, etc... that's more than I have time for.

    Code:
              LAG    RSL
    Mean      1026  1101
    Median     795   940
    Std Dev    749   622
    Range     2179  2040
    Max       2307  2220
    Min        128   180
     
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