The 2012 Off-Season Thread

Discussion in 'New York Red Bulls' started by Ajbk81, Nov 1, 2011.

  1. Metrosuccess

    Metrosuccess Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sadly true.
     
  2. Woodrow

    Woodrow Member+

    Dec 7, 2001
    Brick City
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Largely on the strength of a few games where we scored multiple goals against weak teams. And that was before DeRo was dealt away. When it came time to score against teams like LA, we couldn't get it done.

    BTW, Lindpere is not the answer. He's just not good enough on the ball. From what I saw, the likes of Tainio were unable to provide the necessary support for our forwards. The team right now is a donut. Even when the defense was playing better towards the end of the year, against teams where we needed a counterpunch in a tight game, it was sorely lacking. Sustained attacking pressure takes the pressure off of the defense.
     
  3. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Every team played every other team and had to deal with injuries, trades, etc. That's a weak argument.

    And neither could anyone else! They only allowed like 1 goal per game. They had one of the best defenses in the league (if not THE best). We played them straight up quite well. If Tainio doesn't get injured who knows? Again: Weak.

    All I'm saying is our defense was better when he was in the center of the park. Whatever. With Marquez in the center of the park we're already starting the game a man down so it doesn't even f#cking matter.

    Of course, but you need a capable team defense to win the ball and get the offense going. Something we don't have right now.
     
  4. Woodrow

    Woodrow Member+

    Dec 7, 2001
    Brick City
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    So were gonna do the whole line by line thing now? Tiresome way to win an argument.

    It matters because the team during the stretch run, when the team needed points, there still were too many times when they struggled to score goals.

    Speaking of weak. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

    Do this and the teams goal differential will get worse, not better, mostly because the team will score fewer goals. Lindpere is very useful on the left wing, much less so when he plays in the middle.

    This last point is absurd if you think it really helps your overall argument. You have to learn to walk and chew gum at the same time, and improving our defense is not the only area of weakness. There are plenty of ball winners on this team, the trouble is in linking defense to offense.

    If you look past the goals scored, and at the number of goals allowed, the team was about in the middle of the pack. A small improvement, which could have been accomplished by starting Keel alongside Ream at the beginning of the season, and the team ends up in the top third, defensively, and probably in the standings, too. Would that have changed the result in the playoff, probably not. But pushing the panic button about our defense is absurd, when it is clear that creativity and possession are areas of need, too. Soler and Backe have said as much.
     
  5. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I own up to driving us off topic.

    My main point was that we were perfectly capable of "getting after teams" last year. We scored a lot of goals and created a lot of chances.

    Our problems clearly were in defense and that's where the focus should be this off season.

    If they fix the defense and have time and money left over for an attacking mid, I'm all for it.
     
  6. senorhenriquez

    Aug 5, 2009
    New Jersey
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    .....

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Woodrow

    Woodrow Member+

    Dec 7, 2001
    Brick City
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    It's called walking and chewing gum at the same time. It is possible to work on both in the offseason. Centerbacks are not particularly hard to find on the open market. For a point of reference, Soler and Backe will spend more time trying to find three goalies for the club than they will finding a central defender.
     
  8. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    I see what you are saying - but against organized teams like LA and Salt Lake, our offense looked really clueless. We really were a hit it and hope team or a float hopeful balls in the box for our midgets to miss or hoof the ball forward for Richards and Rodgers to chase. We need a midfield general who keeps the team organized and is a conduit for a variety of attacks. Maybe a hardworking ball winner alongside Rafa will get the job done, but I'm skeptical. I think much of our defense problems came from our midfield.


    I have no idear why you are laughing - some explanation might help.
     
  9. senorhenriquez

    Aug 5, 2009
    New Jersey
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's crying, not laughing!
     
  10. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The defense sucked this year. Sucked. Yes, team defending this that and the other thing, but first things first: Get a keeper, a CB, and a legit rightback.

    Marquez is gonna be a problem. It's gonna be Tainio all by himself there. We need another CM, but the point I'm driving home is that it doesn't have to be a flashy sexy CAM. Put another good 2 way mid in there and maybe replace Richards with Solli and we're talking turkey now.
     
  11. CbR

    CbR Member

    Nov 10, 2000
    Bergen County NJ
    If you cant see that this team needs a cm general then i dont know what to tell you. I totally agree with the donut analogy. Our attacks are started by miller and solli. It forces henry to drop back and pull strings in midfield.
     
  12. defendyourself

    Jul 13, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    +1
    Our top 3 assist getters (Richards, Solli and Lindpere) all played on the wing this year and I also remember the majority of our attacks started out wide and we struggled to build up through the middle without playing long balls over the top (which is where Rafa's assists and Tainio's assists came from)
     
  13. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Walk through this line of thought with me:

    -Our 2 starting CM's are going to be Tainio and Marquez.

    -Marquez is going to play like $hit.

    -Which means we will be overrun in the center of the park.

    -Which means we have to concentrate on improving the defense right now today otherwise we are going to leak goals left right and center.

    Even if, IF the Red Bulls pick up a CAM OR a 2-way CM midfield general (my preference):

    -Marquez will play and Tainio will sit.

    -Marquez will play like $hit.

    -Which means we will still be overrun in the center of the park.

    -Which means we have to concentrate on improving the defense right now today otherwise we are going to leak goals left right and center.


    Do you see what I'm getting at? Marquez f#cks the whole thing up. The defense needs improvement first and foremost simply because he is an automatic lock to start in midfield.
     
  14. redbullny2011

    redbullny2011 New Member

    Sep 29, 2011
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    You must really hate Marquez. Rafa actually has done decent when played in the midfielder. If you think otherwise then you have not been watching Red Bulls games. I bet with a full pre-season in Midfield will see Rafa make that spot his own
     
  15. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was a season ticket holder last year and watched most of the away games on TV.

    If Rafa still has the ability to play well as a CM he better show it next season beause he was absolute crap this year.

    His positioning was lazy, he didn't track runners, and his defending, delivery, and execution on set pieces (which is something he has done very well in his career) was absoutely 100% non-existant.

    Apart from a couple fancy jukes to get himself out of trouble in our defensive end and a few excellent trademark long passes he was TERRIBLE.

    If he's gonna throw the ball at Donovan, throw Ream under the bus, and generally not give a $hit on the field then we're f#cked.
     
  16. Woodrow

    Woodrow Member+

    Dec 7, 2001
    Brick City
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    You see, it's the hyperbole that gets you in the most trouble.

    Solli was fine at right back, and it sounds like Rost is back, so the big priority on defense is an upgrade at center back. However, even if you start the season with Keel and Ream as your pair, this is not the end of the world. They had the 10th best defense in the league, right in the middle of the pack, and a +6 goal differential, which was good for sixth place. Even if you shore up the defense, this team is still going to be middle of the pack. It will also be boring too watch. The only way they are going to contend for anything is if they have a balanced team. That way you can't just sit back and clog the area to shut down Rogers and Henry.
     
  17. FDNY Fitzy

    FDNY Fitzy Member

    Jun 11, 2011
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    How about we get both a good CAM for the diamond and a good CB.

    And we're inevitably going to have at least an average of one injury/red carded player per game so this whole Rafa-Tainio hole problem is not as big when you consider that.

    Tainio can also play RB, just as Solli can play RM and LM.

    We won't be getting our CAM until July, anyways. Until then we are more than likely looking at our standard 4-4-1-1 with a new CB and a bench of

    McCarty
    Ballouchy
    Keel
    Hertzog
    Kassel
    Agudelo
    Backup GK
     
  18. theENFORCER

    theENFORCER Member

    Apr 10, 2010
    NY
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm tired of saying to various people that we don't need a CAM or another forward as we have the guy on our team(Agudelo does he ring a bell)

    Why does everyone just act like Agudelo doesn't exist? He's arguably the most talented player on the team and if he gets minutes he will shine.

    [LINEUP-4-3-3]Henry, Luke, Juan, Lindpere, Tainio, Dane, Miller, Ream, DP CB, Solli, Rost/new GK[/LINEUP-4-3-3]
     
  19. FDNY Fitzy

    FDNY Fitzy Member

    Jun 11, 2011
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    If we're doing a 4-3-3 we will have Richards at RW. Simple as that. It is his ideal position (see Jamaica) and he is not the kind of defensive midfielder you need for a 4-3-3. The RM spot in a 4-3-3 would go to McCarty or Solli almost certainly.
     
  20. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Solli was not fine at right back. He had a good start to the season and then declined. His playoff performance was good though. I would rather see him at RM or CM.

    Rost is not guaranteed to be back.

    We need a CB.

    Sign Rost, get a CB and a RB and THEN we can think about a CM (NOT a CAM).

    That's my opinion.
     
  21. metz

    metz Member

    Jan 17, 2003
    If you will see a 4-3-3 Tainio will not play at least as a starter, Backe instead will play Marquez....
     
  22. jcr3

    jcr3 Member

    Mar 17, 2009
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We need all these spots. It isn't like we can't concentrate on these spots because a lot of things depend on what players become available plus when we use that 3rd DP spot it will be for CAM spot and not for the CB or RB spot. That is a no brainer. There are lots of signings we are going to have to do as many spots that are also for depth.
     
  23. Woodrow

    Woodrow Member+

    Dec 7, 2001
    Brick City
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Pretty much.
     
  24. iced1776

    iced1776 Member+

    Dec 4, 2009
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Totally in agreement on Solli, I hate Backe's mindset that any midfielder can be converted into a fullback. Solli was great getting forward for most of the year, but he was a nightmare defending for all of the year. He constantly gets burned 1v1 because he does not know the basics of body positioning, any moderately paced winger had a field day with him all year. Even in our 5-0 stomping of Toronto at home Plata was ditching him left and right. He was at fault for being out of position for a lot of the set piece goals we gave up this year because he's not accustomed to the position. The guy is great at dribbling the ball forward and delivers by far the best cross on our squad, he should be used in the midfield.
     
  25. kokoplus10

    kokoplus10 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly. THAT's the problem.

    Yes, we need another CM. And a quality one at that. But first things first. Fix the D. Give yourself a chance in each and every game. Then let's see how we look in the summer and adjust from there.

    He's got a really good shot too. Didn't get to use it much playing RB, but I was very impressed. He belongs at RM. Possibly CM. Anything is better than Rafa.
     

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