Re: ... Untoaster Update ... Knave, we're likely to send out a Reserve League side against New York, so I would not count out the Red Bulls on Tuesday. Just saying.
Re: ... Untoaster Update ... Along these lines I'd add the CMB-DCU game. There are actually no bad results for NYR in the CMB-DCU game. Some results are better than others, but which result is best is actually debatable. The mere fact that the 9th and 10th place teams are going to take points from each other one way or another is enough to help NYR.
Re: ... Untoaster Update ... If DC loses or ties to Columbus today, then we get to look at some really interesting "true" magic numbers due to the POR@DC and SKC@DC games. Those two games plus the HOU@POR and NYRB@SKC are the real wrenches in determining the maximum number of points a team can have and still not make the playoffs. As of right now, just looking at number of remaining games, the 11th best MPP is 49, with 10-12 at that number. However, thanks to the HOU@POR and NYRB@SKC games, the "true" number to look at for 11th best MPP for the magic number calculation is actually 48. HOU and POR are both on 49, so a victory for one of those teams drops the other off from 49. SKC is at 51 MPP, while NYRB is the other 49 MPP team. The scenario that results in the highest 11th MPP is NY winning, dropping SKC to 48 MPP. Code: HOU POR DRAW HOU 49 [COLOR="Red"]49 46[/COLOR] 47 POR 49 [COLOR="Red"]46 49[/COLOR] 47 Code: SKC NYR DRAW SKC 51 51 [COLOR="Red"]48[/COLOR] 49 NYR 49 46 [COLOR="Red"]49[/COLOR] 47 MPP chart with those results: 1 - 7: LAG, SEA, RSL, FCD, COL, PHI, DC 8: CLB 50 9: HOU or POR 49 10: NYRB 49 11: SKC 48 I'm waiting for the DC - CLB result today to work out the remaining DC games. It's possible that the "true" number is actually 47 already. If DC ties or loses, I'm pretty sure it will be 47. At the very least, I'm sure it won't go down to 46.
Re: ... Untoaster Update ... As a lay person, it seems like DC winning is the least desirable result - but y'all can probably point out why that may be wrong. At the end of the day - with so few games, the real question seems to be whether NY can get any wins to even think about 46 points. NY fans probably should be rooting for Philly to clinch so their game at the end of the season means nothing to Philly, assuming Red Bull still have something to play for. So a draw may be best toward that end?
For what it's worth, if DC does win today and Chivas loses, we'll have both DC and Columbus on 41 points and both CHV and SJE on a MPP of 41 points. So, head to head results for that potential 4-team eliminator: CHV: 2W (2-1 v SJE, 2-0 v SJE), 3D (0-0 v CLB, 3-3 v CLB, 2-2 v DCU), 1L (3-0 v DCU) CLB: 0W, 3D (0-0 v CHV, 3-3 v CHV, 0-0 v SJE), 2L (3-1 v DCU, 3-0 v SJE) * DCU: 3W (3-1 v CLB, 3-0 v CHV, 2-0 v SJE), 1D (2-2 v CHV), 1L (4-2 v SJE)* SJE: 2W (3-0 v CLB, 4-2 v DCU), 1D (0-0 v CLB), 3L (2-1 v CHV, 2-0 v CHV, 2-0 v DCU) And if CHV is not a part of that tiebreaker: CLB: 0W, 1D (0-0 v SJE), 2L (3-1 v DCU, 3-0 v SJE) * DCU: 2W (3-1 v CLB, 2-0 v SJE), 0D, 1L (4-2 v SJE)* SJE: 2W (3-0 v CLB, 4-2 v DCU), 1D (0-0 v CLB), 1L (2-0 v DCU) *Last game between DC-CLB today So unless I'm reading that wrong (or I need to add in NY, CHI and POR to the mix?) again, a win today by DC should eliminate SJE from playoff contention.
Re: ... Untoaster Update ... Code: HOU POR DRAW HOU 49 49 46 47 POR 49 46 49 47 SKC NYR DRAW SKC 51 51 48 49 NYR 49 46 49 47 DC POR DRAW DC 50 50 47 48 POR 49 46 49 47 DC SKC DRAW DC 50 50 47 48 SKC 51 48 51 49 I'm pretty sure the DC loss dropped the "true" 11th highest possible MPP to 47. I can't find any combination of results in the above games that puts an 11th place team at 48 points. Okay, trying to reason through this: There are 12 teams with an MPP of 48 or higher. We're looking to see if it's possible that 11 teams finish with 48 points or higher. Portland (49) vs Houston (49) means at least one team drops below 48 MPP. In order for NYRB (49) to not drop below 48, they have to beat SKC (51), which drops SKC to 48. SKC (new MPP is 48) plays DC (50), and it's impossible for there to be a result where both teams stay above 48 MPP. So it looks like the highest possible result for an 11th place team is 47 points.
So, it's a ways out for this to be determined because of the international break, but for Dallas, Colorado and KC: A win, AND a draw/loss by two of HOU, NY, DC or POR clinches a place in the playoffs. PHI is a little more complicated, but they can also clinch by the weekend of the 15th, once all other relevant teams have completed their games.
... The Road to Toastville Edition ... Code: [B][U] GP GR W D L PTS PPG PRJ MPP SE# T# M# WS# HD# AD# CNF[/U] [COLOR="Blue"]01 LAG 31 03 18 10 03 64 2.06 70 73 10 -- -- -- ---- ---- W 02 SEA 31 03 16 09 06 57 1.84 63 66 03 -- -- -- ---- ---- W 03 RSL 31 03 15 06 10 51 1.65 56 60 -- -- -- -- ---- ---- W[/COLOR] 04 FCD 31 03 13 07 11 46 1.48 50 55 -- 16 04 -- ---- ---- W 05 PHI 31 03 10 14 07 44 1.42 48 53 -- 14 06 -- 0.33 0.29 E 06 SKC 32 02 11 12 09 45 1.41 48 51 -- 12 05 -- ---- ---- E 07 COL 32 02 11 12 09 45 1.41 48 51 -- 12 05 -- ---- ---- W 08 CMB 32 02 12 08 12 44 1.38 47 50 -- 11 06 -- 0.50 0.44 E 09 HOU 32 02 10 13 09 43 1.34 46 49 -- 10 07 -- 1.00 0.94 E 10 NYR 31 03 08 16 07 40 1.29 44 49 -- 10 10 -- 1.67 1.62 E ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11 POR 31 03 11 07 13 40 1.29 44 49 -- 10 10 -- 1.67 1.62 W 12 DCU 30 04 09 11 10 38 1.27 43 50 -- 11 12 -- 1.75 1.72 E 13 CHI 31 03 07 16 08 37 1.19 41 46 -- 07 13 -- 2.67 2.62 E 14 CHV 32 02 08 12 12 36 1.13 38 42 -- 03 14 -- ---- ---- W 15 SJE 31 03 06 14 11 32 1.03 35 41 -- 02 18 03 ---- ---- W [COLOR="Gray"]16 TFC 32 02 06 13 13 31 0.97 33 37 -- -- -- 04 ---- ---- E 17 NER 31 03 05 12 14 27 0.87 30 36 -- -- -- 08 ---- ---- E 18 VAN 30 04 04 10 16 22 0.73 25 34 -- -- -- 13 ---- ---- W[/COLOR] Current AD-Baseline: 45 Down 1 since last update. Set by NYR’s 44 point, 1.29 PPG pace. [/B] Code: [B]GP = Games Played | GR = Games Remaining | PPG = Points Per Game MPP = Max Points Possible = PTS + (3 x GR) SE# = SS Elimination Number = MPP - (1st Place PTS) + 1 M# = Magic Number = (11th Highest MPP) – PTS + 1 T# = Tragic Number = MPP – (10th Highest PTS) + 1 WS# = Wooden Spoon # = (18th Highest MPP) - PTS +1 HD# = Historical Despair Number = [URL="https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=24203471&postcount=1"]Full explanation[/URL] AD# = Actual Despair Number = [URL="https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=24203471&postcount=1"]Full explanation[/URL] - Sorted by PPG, then most GR, then MLS Tiebreakers. - Teams in [COLOR="Gray"]gray[/COLOR] have been eliminated from the playoffs. - Teams in [COLOR="Blue"]blue[/COLOR] have clinched a playoff spot. - Teams in [COLOR="Green"]green[/COLOR] are conference seeds. - Team in [COLOR="Brown"]brown[/COLOR] has won the Wooden Spoon. - Teams in [I]italics[/I] are conference champions.[/B] Code: [B][U]Pace: Deviation from 3 at home, 1 on the road[/U] [U] GP PTS HG AG HW HD HL AW AD AL PCE[/U] 01 LAG 31 64 16 15 11 05 00 07 05 03 01 02 SEA 31 57 15 16 08 04 03 08 05 03 -04 03 RSL 31 51 16 15 10 03 03 05 03 07 -12 04 FCD 31 46 16 15 08 03 05 05 04 06 -17 05 PHI 31 44 16 15 07 08 01 03 06 06 -19 06 SKC 32 45 16 16 08 06 02 03 06 07 -19 07 COL 32 45 16 16 06 08 02 05 04 07 -19 08 DCU 30 38 14 16 04 07 03 05 04 07 -20 09 NYR 31 40 15 16 06 06 03 02 10 04 -21 10 HOU 32 43 16 16 09 04 03 01 09 06 -21 11 CMB 32 44 17 15 09 05 03 03 03 09 -22 12 POR 31 40 16 15 09 03 04 02 04 09 -23 13 CHI 31 37 15 16 05 08 02 02 08 06 -24 14 CHV 32 36 16 16 05 05 06 03 07 06 -28 15 SJE 31 32 16 15 04 08 04 02 06 07 -31 16 TFC 32 31 16 16 05 07 04 01 06 09 -33 17 NER 31 27 15 16 04 06 05 01 06 09 -34 18 VAN 30 22 14 16 04 05 05 00 05 11 -36 Sorted by PCE, then fewest GP, then PPG.[/B] Code: [B][U]PPG: Home and Away[/U] [U] HPPG APPG[/U] 01 LAG 2.38 01 SEA 1.81 02 RSL 2.06 02 LAG 1.73 03 HOU 1.94 03 FCD 1.27 04 CMB 1.88 04 RSL 1.20 05 POR 1.88 05 DCU 1.19 06 SKC 1.88 06 COL 1.19 07 SEA 1.87 07 CHV 1.00 08 PHI 1.81 08 PHI 1.00 09 FCD 1.69 09 NYR 1.00 10 COL 1.63 10 SKC 0.94 11 NYR 1.60 11 CHI 0.88 12 CHI 1.53 12 CMB 0.80 13 TFC 1.38 13 SJE 0.80 14 DCU 1.36 14 HOU 0.75 15 SJE 1.25 15 POR 0.67 16 CHV 1.25 16 NER 0.56 17 VAN 1.21 17 TFC 0.56 18 NER 1.20 18 VAN 0.31[/B] Code: [B][U]Remaining League Schedule[/U] [U] WK30 WK31 WK32[/U] CHI: ---- FCD CMB ---- @DCU ---- CMB: ---- @NER @CHI COL: ---- RSL @VAN CHV: ---- @LAG SEA DCU: ---- @VAN POR ---- CHI SKC FCD: ---- @CHI @SJE ---- VAN ---- HOU: ---- @POR LAG LAG: @NYR CHV @HOU NER: SJE CMB @TFC NYR: LAG @SKC PHI PHI: @SEA TFC @NYR POR: ---- HOU @DCU ---- ---- @RSL RSL: @VAN @COL POR SEA: PHI SJE @CHV SJE: @NER @SEA FCD SKC: ---- NYR @DCU TFC: ---- @PHI NER VAN: RSL DCU COL ---- @FCD ----[/B] Code: [B][U]Remaining Strength of Schedule[/U] (Factoring Opponent Home and Away Performance) 01 CHV: 2.09 02 HOU: 1.80 03 NYR: 1.54 04 LAG: 1.51 06 SJE: 1.44 07 POR: 1.39 05 CMB: 1.37 08 PHI: 1.34 09 VAN: 1.32 10 COL: 1.21 11 TFC: 1.19 12 SKC: 1.18 13 RSL: 1.17 15 CHI: 1.14 14 FCD: 1.03 16 SEA: 1.02 17 NER: 0.99 18 DCU: 0.92[/B] Code: [B][U]MLS Numbers Resources[/U] [URL="http://www.sportsclubstats.com/USA/MLS.html"]SportsClubStats[/URL] [URL="http://playoffstatus.com/mls/mls.html"]PlayoffStatus[/URL] [URL="http://usasoccer.blogspot.com/"]Climbing The Ladder[/URL] [URL="http://www.settingthetable.info/home.asp"]Setting The Table[/URL] [URL="http://www.mlssoccer.com/playoffstandings"]MLSSoccer's Playoff Table[/URL] [URL="http://www.mlssoccer.com/competition-rules-and-regulations"]MLS Playoff Tiebreakers[/URL] [URL="http://soccernet.espn.go.com/tables?league=usa.1&cc=5901"]ESPN Soccernet's MLS Table[/URL] Please suggest others.[/B] Notes That ass you see is NYR backing into the 10th playoff spot. This was not NYR's doing. Their draw didn't count for much. For their current position, NYR can thank DCU's failure against CMB and the fact that they own the tiebreaker against POR. (From here on out MLS tiebreakers are the third and final ranking criteria on the main table.) NYR is in prime position to make the playoffs. MLS HQ must be thrilled. If NYR is in prime position for the playoffs, then so is POR. Both teams have identical records. And sitting at 40 points with three games left, the playoffs should be theirs if they want it. Unless ... Yes, unless. Unless the bar for playoff entrance goes above 45 points. And looking at the table, seeing how many points top 10 teams already have, seeing how many games they all have left (two or three), there's a real possibility that the bar for playoff entrance is going to be a bit higher than expected. Yes, it took a 1 point downturn this week. But it could go up again by a point or two just as fast. (That said, good chance HOU keeps the bar low -- maybe even at 43 points.) What about CHV and PHI? That game really didn't matter. Both teams got one point. And that point changed nothing for either side. CHV might as well already be eliminated from playoff contention. PHI needs just a couple more points to all but clinch a playoff spot. So what about DCU? They were the big downward movers today. Yeah, they really blew it. Squandered a lead and everything. The own-goal made it special. Does this mean DCU is toast? They've got 4 games left. The numbers they need to get back into contention aren't that off the wall. Heck, they're barely worse than NYR and POR and those two teams are in great position! Indeed, their numbers are a whole lot better than CHI's numbers and people were swearing just recently on this thread that CHI had a realistic playoff shot. Oh, and look at DCU's schedule! Easiest of the entire league. So DCU is in great shape, right? Not toast at all, right? After three years of playoff drought, the rain is finally coming, right? Right ... DCU's not toast. But DCU is definitely on its way to becoming toast. Can they turn it around? You mean numerically? Sure, they can. Why not? This is my team and I'll tell you why not. Without DeRo, we're not even in the conversation. With DeRo, DCU still doesn't have the depth or the quality. DCU may get another result or two. They may push along into the final week. But let's get real here: it just ain't happening for DCU. What's gonna happen is the road to Toastville -- you know that place just down the way from the town of Starting Ngwenya. ... four f'cking years in a row ...
Re: ... The Road to Toastville Edition ... DCU's success aside you still have the best thread in all of the Internet.
You know, we wouldn't be having any less drama if the top 8 made the playoffs this year rather than the top 10. I just mention this in response to the people a few pages back who love the new format.
Will that continue to be true with 2 and 1 game left in the season? Seems like there would be less likelihood of as many teams with chances in the last game.
Seems to depend on how drama is defined. Meaning, with this 10-team format, San Jose, Chivas, Chicago, and DC all will still have life for the next week or two, whereas in the old 8 team format they wouldn't. But on the flip side, unless the results unfold perfectly in the next 10-ish days, there's still a good chance we'd still have just 3 teams with clinched playoff spots at this point in the 8-team set up. For Colorado, Dallas, KC, Columbus and Philly, it could still take until the last week for them to clinch their spots. But really, I think scaryice is making his point because of his aversion to 2008 NY-type mediocre teams qualifying for the playoffs
Hey - at least we didn't have the nerve to win it all unlike Colorado and Salt Lake. But I would define more drama as more fans interested and believing their team has a chance.
True, but at least we had the nerve to finish above .500 when doing so I know scaryice has ranted about both scenarios, but I seem to remember that year and that NY team bothering him more than any.
If GreatGonzo's post right before yours is correct and the true MPP is only 47 then that AND is actually an OR, since a win by those 3 teams puts them at least at 48 and over the MPP, regardless of what happens in the other games.
Spent a few minutes mulling tomorrow's LAG@NYR game. I don't think there's been a game this season with bigger playoff implications. If NYR loses, I don't know if they'd recover. They'd probably have to win both of their remaining games @SKC and PHI. Those teams will be vying for top 3 status, if not 1st in the East, so neither of those games will be easy. Without a viable NYR, the playoff race could wrap up pretty quickly.
I'm not sure I buy this - but I think Red Bull will probably get at least a point tomorrow. And playing for positioning is a different kind of motivation than playing for your playoff life, although Red Bull hasn't shown all that much fire despite they've had a lot of games to make a playoff push. NY really is a different team though if everyone is healthy. If I had to guess, I'd say a win tomorrow, a loss to KC and a coin flip to get a draw or win against Philly.
It helps Red Bull tomorrow night that neither Donovan nor Keane is playing for LAG (one cause of injury; the other cause of international duty). Red Bull caught a break with that.
Not to mention that this is their 9th game in about a month - that's a pretty brutal stretch of games.
And that's what I've been saying: don't count the Red Bulls out. This playing field gets a little bit even with LA playing without Donovan and Keane.
I just noticed something about the schedule that may have a very large effect on the playoff race. October 22-23 is the last weekend of the MLS regular season. There's only 1 game on Sunday the 23rd. But it's a doozy: LAG@HOU. So here's the thing. LAG will know 100% for certain before that game whether or not it is already the SS winner. In fact, LAG will likely know a week or two before that final weekend - all that's needed is a SEA loss, an LAG win, or an LAG draw plus a SEA draw. And LAG plays CHV the week before, so there's your likely win. That means, there's an extremely strong likelihood that LAG won't have anything at all to play for in that last game. It will have already won everything it can in the regular season. Is Bruce really going to take his first team halfway across the country to face a team who will probably have everything to play for, and who will be looking to do whatever is necessary to get a win? I doubt it. Likelihood is, in this final game of the MLS regular season HOU is going to beat a bunch of LAG reserves into the ground. So here I've been looking at the schedule, but not looking at the actual calendar, and I've been thinking there's a chance HOU loses its last two games and ends the season at 43 points. Now I'm thinking that's not likely to happen. More likely is that HOU is going to end the season with no less than 46 points.