The problem is that he’s 21 and has been professional for awhile. While Kutucu may be a local kid, it’s pretty clear that Schalke rates him higher regardless of origin and Kutucu is throughly mediocre if that.
He's going to leave Schalke soon enough. I don't think anyone doubts that. I was saying that nearly two years ago. It's up to him to find a place where he can play. He has the talent, produced extremely well for the reserves and showed improvement with each successive game in the Bundesliga. I disagree about Kutucu. I think he's done well. He may not have any huge strength in his game, but he does a lot well and has versatility to play all across the attacking positions.
How about a refresh? Why not? We're all going stir crazy and there has been some excellent analysis recently since most people, your's truly included, have nothing better to do... I call on the cognoscenti in particular: @ussoccer97531,@Sandon Mibut, @David Kerr, @ChuckMe92, @zlebmada, and many others. Give me your best of the best. Sort through this embarrassment of riches (let's say 2005 to 2000) and ID the lads who have sky's the limit potential. Preliminary candidates: Gio (duh) Richards Gloster Moses Uly Richie Johnny Taylor KDLF Ochoa KHF Vassilev Otasowie Scally Araujo J. Ferreira Kelman Tessman Harper Efra*
I made a post on this topic in December in this thread. Post #11 in the thread. I’d make some minor changes, but not that much. https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/ussoccer97531’s-2019-player-rankings.2108027/ I didn’t include 2000’s in that. I’ll add some analysis on those players. Keeper: Hard to say at this point. I’m a fan of Garces and think he’s one of the most talented goalies in the system, but it’s always hard to predict with goalies. Defenders: Dest has done extremely well. He exceeded expectations. I thought he was talented, but he wouldn’t have been top of the list to break out in a major way. Part of that is opportunity, but he’s done great. Better than I would’ve expected. Richards has good potential. Wait and see a few years down the road because he’s at a club where he won’t break in. He’ll have to move elsewhere. I’ve always been a fan of Gloster. He may never be a star, but I think he’ll be a NT player. Keita has some potential. Might be a NT player, and also maybe not. Midfield: I’m a fan of both Durkin and Sands. Two very talented holding mids. I still think Durkin has very high potential. We’ll see if that materializes. I think a permanent move to Europe would help. Sands ceiling isn’t as high, but he’s also done very well. He should head to Europe soon. I know he’s on the permanent blacklist of USSF and soccer fans in this country for unknown reasons, but Carleton is the most talented player in this age group. If he ever gets a chance at a good level, I think he’ll make them look bad, but he may never get that chance. It’s possible he may be the most talented player we produced who just never was allowed to break through. Ledezma is talented, but a little raw. I like his potential, but I’m not convinced he’ll be a star in Europe. It could go either way. Aaronson will probably get a number of NT caps, but I don’t think he’s that good. Overhyped IMO because of his playing time. Forward: I’ve always said the same things about Sargent. I like his game and think he’s a NT striker. I don’t think he’s a star. He lacks standout areas to his game. Weah has higher potential. He could very well be a star in Europe, although I don’t think it’s a given, and that’s before you consider that he’s missed almost a full season due to injury. I’m a big fan of Soto. I think he has the highest potential of these strikers, but he’s had a terrible season (not all his fault). He can recover from it, but it’s not a given. Ferreira should be a good NT player. Like Sargent, I don’t think he’s a star. I’ve never seen Gioacchini play, but the highlights are interesting. Doesn’t look like much better of a player than Sargent or Ferreira, but I’m only going on highlights. He’s made himself into a relevant name. Credit to him.
Some quick thoughts: I don't see the athleticism in Durkin needed to be a regular USMNT starter; at least not one people are happy with. Isn't his upside Jackson Yeuill? The idea that Carleton is blacklisted is just kind of silly. I was super excited about Carleton and thought he was the cat's meow when he was younger. And he looked like he could hold his own in limited time with Atlanta. But if currently was everything you say he is, he'd have done a lot better in USL over the last two years. Work ethic is important and by all reports, he hasn't demonstrated it. I am not writing him off, but he's been passed up for me by quite a few people who have simply performed better. Aaronson as national team player is a pretty binary thing for me. If he improves the execution of his final ball, I think he'll be a valuable player that likely has a strong backup/B Team role ... like the level of a Benny Feilhaber or Sasha Klejstan. If he never does that, then he's a hard worker with flashes who gets a few caps but never breaks through Weah definitely has higher potential than Sargent -- his athleticism is just streets ahead -- but I think Sargent is a significantly better prospect than Soto. Soto seems very much to me like a guy who did well in the youth ranks mostly through just finishing other people's strong passing / taking advantage of bad D. I haven't seen as much of him so maybe I've missed it, but I just don't see a ton of skill there. I think he can make a nice career being in the right place at the right time, but I'm not sure he's going to be more effective than Zardes. I think someone like Pepi has a better shot to be a regular starter. But no one at striker has the potential Jozy had at 19.
I'm not worried about Durkin's athleticism. His quickness is not a strength of his. If the rest of his game is as good as I expect, I don't think it matters. I don't think Yueill is any good, so I wouldn't say thats a good comparison. I'm not getting into a discussion with the anti-Carleton people (you either are anti or pro, no in-between here). I think most fans are part of the larger problem there, along with their allies in the media and the federation. It's a very unfortunate situation. We agree about Aaronson. Soto is the best finisher of all the strikers IMO, and the most technically skilled. Soto didn't even do that well in the youth ranks, so I don't know what you are saying there.
The vast majority of the fanbase has no interest in defensive midfielder that is not a defensive stalwart. I don't think you can be that if you aren't quick/fast. That's the issue with Durkin. Berhalter seems to agree with you so I could see a place. Then again, I struggle to see what Durkin has on Yeuill aside from youth. Do you realize how paranoid you sound here? There's absolutely an in between here, since there's a lot of fault to go around. I'm still rooting for Andrew Carleton and his potential. I think Atlanta should have given him some more shots at the MLS level. But holy cow, when two different coaching staffs (headlined by Tata Martino and Frank DeBoer, of all people), multiple teammates all say he doesn't work hard, AND he clearly was out partying the night before the MLS Cup when he was supposed to be in the 18 ... a lot of that's on him. But there's nothing important enough about an opinion about Andrew Carleton that people have "allies in the media and the federation" to back up their opinion. Sometimes you need to let an outdated assessment go with new information. I've never seen Soto contribute to the build up or pass like Sargent or Jozy can, for example. I've also never seen quality from long range shots out of him or particularly talented one on one skills. He seems to have a good sense for runs and a deft touch close to goal. But there's a lot of technical skills I haven't seen from him. As to my last point, I think strikers are very hard to evaluate at the youth level because the defenses can be so mistake prone that there's a lot of easy goals to finish off. Finding the right place and time IS a skill, so it's not skill-less, but there needs to be an expansion of your game as you move up that I'm not sure I've seen from Soto. But like I said, I've seen less of him than others.
In the next two weeks I’m going to be publishing an article with a giant more in depth ranking (just 01’s through 05’s) but here’s all of the 2000-2005 players who I think have bright futures. These would be the guys that I think could potentially play in Europe based on film that i have watched Keep in mind that the younger age groups will change drastically over the years 2000: Josh Sargent, Sergino Dest, Tim Weah, Chris Richards, Brendan Aaronson, Richie Ledezma, James Sands, Alex Mendez, Michael Edwards, Chris Gloster, Chris Durkin 2001: Uly Llanez, Julian Araujo, Johnny Cardoso, Taylor Booth, Jose Gallegos, Konrad De La Fuente, Tanner Tessmann, Owen Otasowie, David Ochoa, Cameron Harper 2002: Gio Reyna, Kobe Hernandez-Foster, Damian Las, Bryang Kayo, Joe Scally, Chituru Odunze, Nico Carerra 2003: Moses Nyeman, Jonathan Gomez, Ricardo Pepi, Danny Leyva, Elton Chifamba, Jonathan Perez, Mauricio Cuevas, Caden Clark, Dante Sealy 2004: Malick Sanogo, Quinn Sullivan, Fede Oliva, Evan Rotundo, Antonio Leone, Brandan Craig, Kenan Hot, Leo Torres, Allan Rodriguez, Rokas Pukstas, Chris Brady, Gabe Slonina 2005: Nati Clarke, Gage Akalu, Reed Baker-Whiting, Italo Jenkins, Jordan Jones, Marcelo Mazzola, Dominic Dubon, Brooklyn Raines, Angel Martinez, Emmanuel Ochoa
I'm well aware of all of this. I see the game differently. I'm building my team from a central perspective with passers in defensive midfield, and the athletic stoppers in the back. Three years isn't insignificant though. As to what they do differently, I don't see them playing similar games. Durkin is a holding midfielder and Yueill is a #8 metronome IMO. Yueill is not suited to playing in the same pockets of the field that Durkin does. I don't think Yueill has any type of defensive game, and offensively he's bland. He knows when to move the ball, although he's not an inventive passer. He's similar to a player like Diskerud. Diskerud is a #8, and it didn't work well when used as a #6 because he's not physical enough. Yueill plays the same game from what I see. I think Durkin plays completely different. Durkin has an excellent passing range from deep in midfield and is a good defensive player. I think there's a misconception that you can only be good defensively in defensive midfield with a Tyler Adams style of mobile, frantic, aggressive challenges defense. I don't agree. There are plenty of bigger, more physical defensive midfielders who are good defensively. These players usually are good defensively in their aerial play, their 50/50 duels, their tackling accuracy, and their positioning. Durkin succeeded overwhelmingly in all these areas in the youth game, but has struggled to adjust to this area of the game against professionals. I think we need to let him figure out this part of the game in the professional game. There are plenty of players who need to make adjustments once they reach professional football, and can't do everything the way they did it against youth players. I still think this part of Durkin's game will be a strength, but it might take a few years to turn into one. I don't see why there is a rush either. He's only 20 years old. If it takes until 22 or 23 to be a National Team player, thats not a problem. I don't see that as a strength for Sargent. I think Sargent is capable of doing hard work hold up play. He makes very basic, effective plays. He brings nothing very technical or creative with his ability on the ball from what I see. I've heard the argument you are making about Soto before from other people, and I see it differently. I've seen multiple times where he holds off a defender with his footwork, draws a foul or releases a teammate because the defenders were fooled by his foot-skills. We'll see how his game materializes, but I think he has the best foot-skills and footwork of all these '00 strikers.
Sargent stands out in his hold up and combination play where i think he is still the best at in the ynt pool. What I’m concerned about is his complete regression that we’ve seen over the last year at Bremen. Sargent made confident and effective movement at every level before he got to Bremen including when he was with the USMNT in 2018. Sargent to me still has by far the highest ceiling of our strikers but it is falling fast at a club that is tanking his career. Sargent is a striker without service and most importantly without confidence which is key for his progression as a player. Soto is alright at a lot of aspects of his game and then is a good finisher. He’s never been a player who I thought was particularly special from his RSL days till now. Sargent’s foot skills are ahead of Soto’s but neither of them are the most skillful players and it’s not their style of game. Both are hold up play and finishers instead of creators. Whoever is in better form at the time should get called up it’s not a matter of who’s better than who overall because they’re similar style players to me.
Maybe you’re not classifying Ferreira as a striker (perhaps a false 9?) and I’m not saying he’s the best forward in the pool but his foot skills are the best by far. Not exactly sure where to play him as he really seems an old fashioned second forward. Who knows? He may be lucky and that position makes a comeback as formations are cyclical.
I was including him. I agree that he has good foot skills. Not as good as what I thought a few years ago, but still good.
I just popped in here and couldn’t help but notice that still no one compiled a top 20 list here. I know @ussoccer97531 did his post in December and I refer to it often, and @David Kerr has been doing it, but I was hoping to see some other opinions. I used to be pretty in tune with this and able to make my own list that was somewhat informed but I got busy with work last year and since this whole mess started, I’ve still been super busy.... haha jk I watch Family Guy 5 hours a day and play FM ‘18 for 7. But I’m having trouble finding the motivation to go back and scour youtube for 5 month old DA games that may or may not have the prospect I’m looking for in them. So please humor me and give me some diverse opinions
Reyna Llanez Booth Ledezma Mendez Richards Vassilev KHF KDLF Ochoa Otasowie Pepi Nyeman Sepulveda Scally Araujo J. Ferreira Tessman Gomez (Louisville) Sousa Kelman Harper Cardosa Gloster Hoffman Hoppe
My fairly uneducated and incomplete view, trying to rank though obviously I'll be horribly wrong. I'm counting a few guys with a token cap because my knowledge does not dip in to the younger folks as well. I didn't include Antonee Robinson, Miles Robinson, EPB or CCV as they all have more than a token cap, I think. Reyna - biggest upside, already broken in at highest level Pomykal - Safest bet and underrated upside as a two way player Llanez - Perhaps not the upside of those below him but his skillset matches his position so well that I think his floor is USMNT player Pepi - the highest upside / position of real need combination Richards - concerned about opportunities but can't ignore the talent Ledezma - at minimum, Benny/Sasha 2.0 ... chance to be more Tanner Tessman - perhaps I am overreacting, but I really enjoyed his minimalist game combined with clear physical attributes that won't disqualify him from any level. I don't think he ever elevates to a full destroyer who owns the back, but I think there's a clear path to the USMNT Kobe Hernandez Foster - Here's the first drop-off for me, just a bit less proven than the above Brendan Aaronson - Adding the final ball is the hardest skill to add. His size means he has to play towards the front internationally -- he's too small to play back in CONCACAF or a World Cup. And so he has to add that. And most don't. Konrad de la Fuente - real questions from me about athleticism, and normally that would place him lower, but everyone below here has real questions as well. Basically he's here because if his athleticism takes a jumo as he matures between now and 21, he would shoot up the list. Sebastian Soto - Not a huge fan, but he can't be left off this. I think Sargent is a step up from him, Pepi is a step up from him, but that players like AOC are not as good as Soto right now. Jesus Ferreira - Not sure where to put Ferreira. He doesn't have a great positional advantage in the current world, but his well rounded skillset has a place. Doesn't finish enough to be a CF right now; disappears too much to a 10. Can you carry a False 9/second striker on a tournament team if your normal forwards are straight CFs/wingers? Floor-wise, this is too low. Ceiling? Probably right. Elton Chifamba - One of the few younger guys I've watched a decent amount of video. Should probably be higher on this list as he has the right mix of skill and tools. Could definitely see him becoming the best of the young folks coming through. Jose Gallegos - Carved up FC Dallas. Would like to see him move up to see if he's consistent against better competition. But he was absolutely playstation in that game. Moses Nyeman - I love watching him play, and being small doesn't disqualify you in soccer ... but he's real small. And not lacks the topline speed of a Pulisic, etc. But he's young, and it's worth noting that he doesn't differ from Pomykal in attitude or height by that much. So with a bit more strength, he could really be something. Other guys I like: James Sands seems to be a really strong contributor for NYCFC; he seems to be continually spurned by US Soccer, though. I have no idea why. I've only seen Mauricio Cuevas a few times but I've always been really impressed. I am nowhere near as high on Chris Gloster as many on here -- I don't think the skills ever get to where people seem to think they are, but his athleticism, work rate and general improvement make me think he's a safe bet to get caps at some point, especially at LB Love Danny Leyva's game at this age, but his USMNT future is going to be determined largely by his athleticism, and that's still TBD. I've never seen Otasowie play, but profile wise he seems like he should be on the above list and maybe in the Top 10. Same with Gomez and players like Nati Clarke, etc., who people rave about. I haven't seen them, and even if I did, I don't know that I have the skillset to rate, say, a 15 year old CB in the context of future play. I didn't include keepers. I have never been impressed by Taylor Booth but fully acknowledge that I'm likely wrong since Bayern and everyone else seems to love him. I definitely only really catch YNT games and MLS / USL games, so there's definitely a black hole in my knowledge about guys like Hoffman. From my list, I wanted to angle towards potential, but definitely ended up favoring guys who clearly are going to be able to contribute.
I wouldn’t count Pomykal or any 2000’s in this tbh. Because we know where they rank. I’ll post my 20 tonight after work
Yeah, I debated whether to exclude them but wanted to be able to talk to some of the potential we haven't fully seen yet.
I agree. They make the list more readable but most have landed somewhere and it is more if they will take a step. Several players would have probably had their first USMNT in March if not for Covid. Mendez, Ledezma, RIchards were all rumored to be in. Of course, Reyna too. The post U20 WC players are easily followed in the Breakout Youngster thread as they are all waiting to break out. Guys looking to make the U20 team this cycle are different. Some, like Reyna and Vassilev, very well could break out. But the more natural progression is USL/MLS or U19 ball then U20 WC.
gogorath, overall your list is really good. But regarding Booth, your humility is well placed: he has been consistently good every time I've watched him. Makes good, quick decisions, excellent passer, hard worker with an above average motor, good speed and quickness, some bite defending, makes very good runs/good awareness of space. If he can avoid injury and catches a break or two with club timing and needs, he has a bright future.
I included anyone who has had a token USMNT call-up or less. One of the reasons is to actually rank some of the more likely immediate call-ups in line with either their supposed peers or some of the younger players. I think it leads to some interesting discussions. For example, I don't have Mendez in my Top 15, and I suspect that he's now at best, sixth (or likely lower) on the depth chart for the only real position you'd play him. But I'm settling as a Mendez skeptic right now.
I've just never seen the upside -- I feel like he's good at everything but not truly special at anything and so likely to top out at a level below USMNT player. But like I said, this is likely one case (of many, I'm sure) where I am wrong!
I am doing u20 & u17 core age groups only so the 2001's through the 2005's. I am also not including goalkeepers as they should be graded amongst each other and not among the field players because they develop at a different rate. My list skews older as the older prospects have had time to be better evaluated for their future floor/ceiling than the young players. This list made me realize how many 2001's I really rate and how little I rate the 2004's. The 2005's there is not enough data to fairly rank them outside of the three age group standouts. 1. Gio Reyna 2. Malick Sanogo 3. Nati Clarke 4. Moses Nyeman 5. Uly Llanez 6. Kobe Hernandez-Foster 7. Jonathan Gomez 8. Ricardo Pepi 9. Antonio Leone 10. Julian Araujo 11. Johnny Cardoso 12. Bryang Kayo 13. Taylor Booth 14. Gage Akalu 15. Jose Gallegos 16. Italo Jenkins 17. Konrad De La Fuente 18. Evan Rotundo 19. Danny Leyva 20. Tanner Tessmann My truly elite/star prospect tier ends with Antonio Leone. The rest start the USMNT/Bundesliga level tier where I see these guys making a bundesliga level team and being a USMNT contributor but likely not further than that.
I can see the skepticism. In general, BS tends to focus on the negative. This player or that player is not great on defense, or doesn't move off the ball, or doesn't concentrate for 90 minutes. Some things are fixable, some things can be improved. For prospects, in soccer or baseball, the best players are usually great at some things as opposed to those that are good at many things. Mendez hit some passes with the U20s that nobody else has, not only on that team, but the previous two teams. He does some things at an elite level. You can rank him anywhere, because if he doesn't fix some things he will probably be an MLS guy. But if he improves some things, he could be a UCL guy.