The 100 Greatest X of All Time Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by comme, Nov 19, 2009.

  1. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024







    Gerd Muller ... Final 10 .... 10 matches .... 10 goals .... 1 pre-assist til here ! my friend !
     
  2. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
  3. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024





    Gerd Muller Final 11 ... 11 matches .... 11 goals ..... 1 pre-assist ..... 1 a key plays til here !
     
  4. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024





    Gerd Muller Final 12 .... 12 matches ..... 11 goals ... 1 pre-assist .... 1 key plays til here !
     
  5. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024





    Gerd Muller Final 13 .... 13 matches ... 11 goals ..... 1 pre - assist .... 1 a key plays til here !
     
  6. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024







    Gerd Muller Final 14 .... 14 matches ....... 11 goals ..... 1 pre-assist .... 1 key plays til here !
     
  7. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024






    Gerd Muller Final 15 ..... 15 matches ..... 13 goals .... 1 pre-assist .... 1 key plays til here !
     
  8. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024






    Gerd Muller Final 16 .... 16 matches ...... 14 goals .... 1 pre-assist .... 1 key Plays til here !
     
  9. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
    ..........Til Here ! Right Now !

    Ranking Rate = Goals + Assists + Pre-Assists (type 1, type 2 ) + Penalties Suffered ( as a Key Plays . ) ......................... !

    Ruud Gullit 11 matches .. 6 goals .....+ 4 assists and + 1 pre-assist aswell Total = 11
    Michael Laudrup 16 matches ... 2 goals ..... + 3 assists and + 1 pre-assist aswell Total = 6
    Dennis Bergkamp 19 matches .... 1 goal ..... + 3 assists and + 4 pre-assists aswell ! + 1 penalty suffered Total = 9
    Ronaldinho Gaucho 27 matches ..... 6 goals .... + 5 assists and .... + 1 pre-assist aswell ( 1 * auxerre french cup final in 2003 ) Total = 12 participations in goals . ! ( * 13 )
    Diego Armando Maradona til here ... Total = 15 matches ... 7 goals .+.. + 10 assists and + 5 pre-assists === 1, 46 % Total = 22
    Zidane .... Final 24 matches ...... 4 goals .... 3 assists ans 7 pre-assists til here ! Total = 14
    Michel Platini Final 13 .... 13 matches ..... 9 goals ..... 3 assists .... 2 pre-assists til here ! = Total = 14
    Le grand Alfredo Di Stefano 16 matches ..... 11 goals .... 6 assists ... 2 pre-assists Total = 19
    without the Copa San Martin de Torres Tours Final in 1980 ..... 14 matches ...... 3 goals + 10 assists and + 5 pre-assists = 1, 28, 05 % ! Diego Maradona . Total = 18
    without the SuperCup Mundialito 1983 vs Flamengo .... ...... 12 matches .... 8 goals ... 3 assists ..... 2 pre-assists too ! so amazing at all .. Michel Platini this is my real idol with Gullit too and Edson Arantes Pelé .. Johan Cruyff .. Ferenc Puskas . Total = 13
    ... Johan Hendrix Cruyff .... 17 matches ..... 11 goals .... 9 assists .... 3 key plays ... 3 pre-assists = Total = 26
    Ferenc Puskas 11 matches ..... 17 goals .... 3 assists ... 1 pre-assist Total = 21
    Gerd Der Bomber Muller .... 16 matches ... 14 goals ... ...1 pre-assist .. 1 Key Plays Total == 16








    Diego Armando Maradona average of participations to the team ===== == 1, 28, 05 %
    Ruud Gullit average of participations to the team ===== == 1, 00 %
    Michael Laudrup average of participation to the team =============== 0. 37 , 05 %
    Dennis Bergkamp average of participation to the team ================= 0 . 47 , 30%
    Ronaldinho Gaucho average of participation to the team =============== 0 . 44, 44 %
    Zine.. Zidane .... average of participation to the team ================== 0. 58, 33 %
    Michel Platini average of participation to the team =============== 1. 08, 33 %
    Don Di Stefano Le grand average of participation to the team =============== 1. 18 , 75 %
    JOhan Hendrix Cruyff average of participation to the team =============== 1. 52, 94 %
    Ferenc Puskas average of participation to the team =============== 1. 90, 90 %
    Gerd Der Bomber Muller average of participation to the team =============== 1. 00, 00 %






    .......... per Finals disputed for both players !



    CURRENT RANKING LIST ! Updated again .



    1. Ferenc Puskas == 1, 90 %
    2. Johan Hendrix Cruyff == 1, 52 %
    3. Diego Armando Maradona == 1, 28 %
    4. Don Alfredo Di Stefano == 1, 18 %
    5. Michel Platini == 1. 08 %
    6. Gerd der Bomber Muller == 1. 00 % ( Is Missing two goals against Hamburg's Final 67 to analize this as soon as possible don't have images til now )
    7 . Ruud Gullit == 1 , 00 %
    8. Zinedine Zidane == 0 . 58 %
    9. Dennis Bergkamp == 0.47 % ( 1* penalty suffered( a key Plays ) against Torino Uefa Cup Final)
    10. Ronaldinho Gaucho == 0 . 44 % (1 * + 0. 48 % not defined * French Cup Final)
    11. Michael Laudrup == 0. 37 % ( 1 * freekick won against Manchester United 1990/91 not defined *)
     
  10. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    15:04 on here has DFB-Pokal Final 1966/67 highlights I noticed mate:
    1964 bis 1970 Deutsches Pokalendspiele (youtube.com)
    Muller has 2 goals, but the assister for the Ohlhauser goal is not shown on the video (but Muller isn't the one fouled for the penalty goal anyway we can see - it seems like it might be Brenninger, who takes the penalty himself, to me).
     
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  11. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024



    ...... yes I saw and I Know the goals ...of Gerd Muller .. is already noted there on the list..... But the assists .... pre-assists .... and key plays ... i don't know yet ... Brenninger goal and Rainer
    Rainer Ohlhauser goal ... still don't shown there . !
     
  12. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Ah ok - like I say the key play (penalty won) is not by Muller (it is probably Brenninger himself I think, but clearly not Muller), but maybe you would also consider the pass to him as a pre-assist in theory (like I said before, especially with older games I guess there will be quite a few examples where we can't know every pre-assist anyway, but I wasn't sure if you would be counting passes before penalties won as pre-assists to be honest....).

    For the Ohlhauser goal, yes it is not clear who made a pass to him or how the play developed, true.
     
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  13. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024



    yes ... i count this for sure ... as an indirect assist yes ... thank you dear mate ... i saw your video is very very nice this video .. i like it ...
     
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  14. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Going back to the Michael Laudrup discussion, I am aware it would help his stats (not in Finals as such, but in general) if those were added to the pre-assist tallies anyway though (I remember that when I looked into his Barcelona/Real Madrid assists he did have a few of those)!

    I had probably assumed that you wouldn't be counting them Wiliam, but yeah if you are then it's not clear whether or not Muller would have one of those before the penalty won indeed (edit: and I see now you confirm that you would be counting them).
     
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  15. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024




    .....But before to talk about or on Michael Laudrup ... again and again ....


    let me speak one thing on Romário ... i mean ... what he is really speaking on Johan Cruyff ...

    in portuguese brazilian language .... you will like this too much ... !
     
  16. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024








    https://www.google.com/search?q=bay...ate=ive&vld=cid:e67c14ba,vid:3Oc9XefKz7M,st:0





    Like Rivaldo in the Brazilian team's second goal in the 2002 World Cup Final. Rivaldo made a body feint skill before Ronaldo's goal... Gerd der bomber Mueller made a light cut or a body feint skill on Bayern Munchen's second goal scored by Kapelmann after Rummenigge's pass in Club World Cup ..in 1976 .. ! in Germany game ... pre-assist happened in the second goal against Leeds 1975 ... Beckenbauer likes another flank there ... later ... Gerd muller passing with left foot ... !
     
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  17. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024





    ..................https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wbgDpPYA3nc






    On Romario now :

    Romário said : in portuguese brazilian language there in the interview !



    Romário is speaking like this or this way in Brazilian Portuguese... that He thinks like me in the sense What impressed me most about Johan Cruyff acting as a Football genius player, there is certainly the ability for him to be an ambidextrous player at the highest level that ever existed By example Crosses with the left and right foot... Long passes with the left and right foot
    Deep passes and vision with the left and right foot
    Plays one-two either feet

    Lobs also with both left and right legs either feet.. Romário said that when he saw all these qualities of JOhan Cruyff in training.. at Barcelona in that moment 1993/94.. he was really scared and highly impressed by this... equally Johan Cruyff.. was between 47 years to 50 years Already at this time.. Romário was very scared and impressed by this technical teaching skills... For example in the PUckvanHeel videos it shows this a lot.. Do you know when Johan Cruyff was injured in the United States... of his right leg... so he He used his left leg more to pass and take corners with his left leg.





    .................https://dai.ly/x51yhu5




    .....https://dai.ly/x29cki9




    .....https://dai.ly/x29do3q
     
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  18. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024




    now on Michael Laudrup : I know him dear mate ! stays calm about it



    ........










    .......
    Michael Laudrup is in the group of Fantasists, artists, magic players and wizards of the game of Football in general along with George Best, Stanley Matthews, Jay Jay Okocha, Clarence Seedorf, Ronaldinho Gaucho, Neymar Jr.., Robinho pedaladas, Denilson Show, Edilson Capetinha, Djalminha , Mané Garrincha, Littbarski, Libuda , Kurt Hamrin, Pedernera, Raimundo Orsi, Moreno, Omar Corbatta, Omar Sivori, Juan Ramon Veron, Riquelme, Brian Laudrup, Renato Gaucho, Mario Sergio, Edu, Julinho Botelho, Chinesinho, Luisinho Polegar etc....




    .................
    generally these players deliver more show, art, great lances and spectacle. But on the other hand, they will certainly lack much more effectiveness into the game




    Example this

    Ferenc Puskas 719 matches .... 708 goals ... 404 assists
    vs
    Ronaldinho Gaucho 806 matches ... 302 goals .... (192 or 194 assists ... by Trachta numbers )
     
  19. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    #2844 PDG1978, Jul 1, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2024
    For sure I understand what you are saying re: some players being more determinant with end product than others who are not so sharp or decisive, especially in goalscoring.

    I think it's best not to argue between us very much about the topic too, but to offer the 'other side' a little bit I would say that those stats should be adjusted for eras (where I do credit Trachta a lot is for doing this with his goal contribution method even if it's not perfect as a way to judge/value players overall of course) - Puskas did play in high scoring times, and on high scoring teams, of course.

    Also for example (re: Puskas and Laudrup in respective Real Madrid and Barcelona peak times in La Liga)
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/l...-mundo-deportivo.2037428/page-2#post-35617948
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/l...-mundo-deportivo.2037428/page-2#post-35747083
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/la-liga-rankings-1975-93.1813986/page-7#post-24935236
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/la-liga-rankings-1975-93.1813986/page-7#post-24968252
     
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  20. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I think I got the right links pasted in the above post now (should be for La Liga 1958/59, 1959/60, 1991/92, 1992/93).

    I would say with those earlier ones perhaps there should be some doubt though, due to the rating system used etc. Probably Puskas is considered more among the top players than is indicated there, in the final analysis of La Liga seasons of that time (not to mention what he did in the European Cup too....)
     
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  21. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024






    ...........
    Let's suppose in the list of the 50 greatest players of the History we will put very clear rules : there... for example.... 10 endproducts... 10... fantasy players or creative players
    10 total footballers midfielders or defenders
    10 defenders
    10 wing guards



    unfortunately... these very fantasy players

    will lose their seats to JOhan Cruyff Maradona .. Platini ... Ronaldo Nazario ... Marco van Basten ... Zico etc...
     
  22. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    yes i know this already ...about goals !
    Well, honestly in the past they were very hungry for goals. maniacal mentality for sure.. a positive obsession to always score goals always. and honestly I don't see any problems with this, in general they didn't do anything prohibited by the regulations at the time... well... winning 7 x 4 matches is better than just winning 1 x 0... they were obsessed with goals... they They didn't think about keeping possession of the ball.. they were focused.. at an insane pace, very fast, agile, quick and maniac too. !
     
  23. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Of course Copa del Rey games are not included either.

    Anyway, what it was showing was Laudrup as top La Liga player according to Spanish media ratings twice in a row in La Liga seasons, and Puskas (potentially not 'peak Puskas' though anyway because he was a star in Hungarian football several years earlier and a bit more mobile and more of an all-round player) not top La Liga player in his famed 1958/59 and 1959/60 seasons (still being his best rated La Liga seasons though as per what is on DBS Calcio too)....
     
  24. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Thank you. That is very nice. I am aware of similar comments by Romario but it is interesting/nice he also says such things on Brazilian television - that really adds something yes. If he was really "scared" though then that was not the intention! The intention was to teach/think/practice the players some things (and yes I know Romario has spoken highly about that too, that it worked etc.).





    https://spielverlagerung.de/2016/03/24/traineranalyse-johan-cruijff/
    https://spielverlagerung.de/2015/01/01/cruyff-blamiert-ferguson/

    :)

    On that referee Blankenstein that I mentioned in the previous posts: it is easy to see German teams had actually a good record under him :confused: ? With red cards for the opponents. Maybe he meant something like "I don't give them gifts"

    https://www.transfermarkt.co.in/joh...d_id=40&verein_id=0&wettbewerb_id=&heim_gast=

    :)
     
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  25. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    @Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    You posted this video a couple times



    Also aware of this one? From the 1993-94 season against Real Madrid. Very similar!

     
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