That's not very nice

Discussion in 'International News' started by yasik19, Dec 21, 2008.

  1. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081221/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_human_rights

    Why was this office closed? The article is really brief, so does anyone know?
     
  2. tcmahoney

    tcmahoney New Member

    Feb 14, 1999
    Metronatural
    Iran invented repression.
     
  3. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator

    Dec 30, 2000
    The Palouse
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
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    Just curious if you planned ahead for this to become a tit-for-tat thread as we compare crappy events like this in the US, EU, Israel, and beyond? It certainly seems appropriate at this point. :)
     
  4. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
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    :D

    Well, it's newsworthy anyway, regardless of the reason for posting it. It's on the BBC as well now.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7794788.stm

    In a statement, the judiciary said it had ordered the closure of the Human Rights Defenders Centre in Tehran because it did not have the required legal permits, the Mehr news agency reported.

    It had also been "promoting illegal activities such as issuing statements on different occasions, sending letters to domestic and foreign organisations, holding press conferences, meetings and conferences" which created an atmosphere "of media publicity against the establishment in recent years", the statement added.

    Ms Ebadi became the first Muslim woman to win the Nobel Peace Prize in 2003 for work that included promoting the rights of women and children in Iran and worldwide.


    That's the thing about repressive regimes. They're not even very good at being repressive. Their excuses, (sorry.... 'reasons' :rolleyes:), for doing it are usually so utterly banal.
     
  5. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
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    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    No, I wasn't. I saw this article on yahoo and thought it was news worthy. If you found an article on yahoo home page from US, Israel, EU or any other country, please add a link to this thread.
     
  6. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
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    England
    What I don't understand is why they're doing it, or, more to the point... why they're doing it NOW? I would imagine it's related to some sort of power struggle between the hard-liners and moderates.

    Maybe somebody who knows more about Iran can comment?
     
  7. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
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    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    Andy's comment goes along with the thread IM started yesterday with the article on political change. Why now?
     
  8. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    That almost sounds like a request for IM to post? ;) :D
     
  9. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    I should edit my post before it's too late. :D You know, we, moderators don't have absolute power. Well, some do.

    I kid.
     
  10. Borussia

    Borussia Member+

    Jun 5, 2006
    Fürth near Nuremberg
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    Maybe it was also a reaction of the Mullahs to this event:

    http://www.menschenrechte.nuernberg...e617a0ff40ad7b15550b0&artid=HS2008-12-08-5308


    Well, we all know the true faces of the Iranian & also Chinese regime in the meanwhile ... so it's no surprise. One more reason (beside the threats towards Israel) to stop any cooperation with Iran (no matter of economic aspects) until its government finally respects human rights!
     
  11. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
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    lol. Unfortunately the west lost its right to criticise regimes for their human rights records a few years ago.
     
  12. Borussia

    Borussia Member+

    Jun 5, 2006
    Fürth near Nuremberg
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    Well, you're right in certain aspects (that's why the current US government is so quiet in this matter).

    But let's be honest: Do you approve of what happens to intellectuals & human right activists in Iran & China?
     
  13. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
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    No. I don't approve of alot of things that happen, whether in Iran or other parts of the world. But to take a story like this and get all upset and righteously indignant over it, when the US and the EU have either actively carried out, or colluded in carrying out, fundamental breaches of human rights, is rather... short-sighted is the nicest word i can come up with.
     
  14. Borussia

    Borussia Member+

    Jun 5, 2006
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    Please tell me any intellectual or critic in the EU & US who got arrested! And what about the situation of women in Iran (and many Arab countries)?
     
  15. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
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    There are a huge number of examples of people arrested and otherwise badly treated not for what they have DONE, but for what they have THOUGHT. The most obvious examples are David Irving and Roger Garaudy, simply because these two are most often cited in the media. I don't agree with them, nor do I know enough about their ideologies, but they have been arrested and convicted for thinking a certain way and making their views public.

    If you want to criticise a regime for failing to protect human rights you need to be almost blameless in respecting human rights yourself. The EU and US have trampled on democracy and human rights in the Middle East, South East Asia and South America for decades, all in the name of realpolitik, through their support or acquiescence in the abuses of dictatorial and/or occupying regimes. So do not be surprised when people laugh at the hypocrisy of the EU and US giving them lectures on democracy and human rights.
     
  16. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
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    On your women point, there are clearly breaches of human rights in some cases, and these should be punished to the full extent of the law. In many countries they are not, and this is a major cause for concern.

    But the Western portrayal of women as a whole being "subjugated" is simply incorrect. I would be happy to debate this with you in another more relevant thread.
     
  17. Borussia

    Borussia Member+

    Jun 5, 2006
    Fürth near Nuremberg
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
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    Irving had been arrested in Austria not because of what he thought but due to repeatedly spreading Nazi propaganda in public, denying the Holocaust and offending millions of victims!

    Do you really try to compare him with those persons who get jailed in Iran? C'mon, be serious...


    Really interesting ... since the "new" (policital) EU doesn't even exist that long (the whole process started after the fall of the Iron Courtain 1989/90).
     
  18. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
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    Apparently he has researched and come to a certain conclusion. I don't know what his thesis is, and i don't have the time and inclination to be reading his text, but he has been arrested for holding a presumably sincere belief which has been researched. I bet the Iranian Authorities will likewise give similar arguments for the arrest of intellectuals, like corrupting the youth (Socrates), or destroying the social fabric, like the modern Chinese.

    The argument, I assume, is that his research is flawed. But the point remains - should people be arrested and imprisoned for research deemed to be false by the authorities? 'Cause that is what happened. He is not inciting hatred or advocating violence, merely holding an offensive factual position. Besides, there have been other cases:
    http://einstellung.so36.net/en/ps/113
    Also the denial of entry to the US and some EU countries of certain people such as Qaradawi and Ramadan are examples of treating intellectuals like criminals for their beliefs, and solely for their beliefs.

    The EU has failed in a number of places since the 1990's (most notably Bosnia), and before Maastricht the driving forces of the EU (notably France and the UK) also failed to uphold democracy and the rule of law. You can look at the past at France's involvement in Algeria, the UK's involvement in Iraq II, the collusion of European countries in Guantanamo and Ghost Detainees, and so forth.

    Even look today at the situation in Gaza. They are (along with Arab countries like Egypt) collaborating in the collective punishment of a people whose only decision was to democratically elect a Government which was at the outset given little chance to succeed due to the actions of the Quartet (I would stronly recommend a full reading of the De Soto report into this affair).

    When the EU, US and the West in general are silent on Gaza, silent on Chechnya and silent on places like Kashmir, but then decide that they have a view on human rights abuses in Iran, i have to question their angle. the criticism comes not from a respect for Human Rights, but as always from self-interest.

    There is valid criticism to make (and believe me, in my personal private capacity i have made many criticisms of places in the Middle East and South-East Asia), but not by the governments of the aforementioned countries.
     
  19. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
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    Why would you say that? If there is one right that we haven't lost in the West it is the right to criticize. And if there is one thing Western culture thrives at is at being critical.

    We're certainly not above criticizing our own. Just read the threads on these boards for some good examples.
     
  20. Umar

    Umar Member+

    Sep 13, 2005
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    Crap, can a mod delete the duplicate posts? My system yesterday was telling me i couldn't post.
     
  21. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKTRE4BN22H20081224
     
  22. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
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    I'll try to fix this thread.
     
  23. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    that was weird (thread thing)
     
  24. JBigjake

    JBigjake Member+

    Nov 16, 2003
  25. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Tehran Iran
    I don't know what is behind the actions to intimidate Shirin Ebadi, who while I disagree with on many levels and some key issues, represents the kind of voice that I certainly don't want Iran to snuff out. But, more generally, I also know that it doesn't help Shirin Ebadi to stand up for civil liberties in Iran, nor for others to stand up for Shirin Ebadi here in Iran, as long as we live in a climate in Iran where the country is being subjected to covert and overt threats from outside to unravel its system through various means.

    A segment within the American foreign policy establishment tries to protect those fighting for greater protection of civil liberties in Iran, in order that they can rally intellecutuals and through them the elites, academics, students and the middle classes in Iran to oppose the regiime. Another segment in that same establishment works with terrorist groups such as MKO, as well as various ethnic separatist groups (be it Arab, Azeri or Kurdish) and even Al Queda associated extremists (sunni groups engaged in grotesque forms of terrorism on Iran's eastern border), to create instability and bring violence within its borders. Another segment works with labor unions and the like to create worker unrest. And another segment works with old monarchists, marxists, and you name it, supporting their "regime change" activities consisting mainly of non stop negative propaganda and rumor mongering through dozens of satellite television stations beaming to Iran, including but not limited to the Persian service of Voice of America. This is all while the US works openly to further isolate Iran diplomatically, politically and otherwise, imposing ever more stringent unilateral and multilateral sanctions to hurt its economy. All of this, alternatively (depending on which segment of the American establishment you look at) intended to either create more pressure on Iran to cry uncle on totally unrelated issues focusing on Iran's foreign policy. Or intended to achieve the publicly stated goal of the Israelis to create an "implosion" within Iran.

    The United States, and the larger western world in general, has its own reasons for doing what it is doing, but don't expect too many people in Iran to believe those reasons are altruistic. And as long as that is not the case, I don't know how much help it is to any of these folks for people in the west to supposedly carry their briefs for them.
     

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