Re: There is no "need to reinvent ourselves" I only brought that up to illustrate the ridiculousness of knave's comments.
Actually the club that was most impressed with Mapp and has been tracking him for a while now is Valencia, so Knave is right, it is more likely to be Spain. Let's be real here folks, Mapp's first season he spent MOST of it in High School, and he made the jump to MLS without any substantial pre-season. He went from Youth teams to mid-season MLS and shockingly, wasn't the instant messiah. Go figure. Add in the facts that Trask/Hudson do not develop talent, and that the kid was a seriously lopsided player (very left-footed, offense only, mediocre vision) and people would have been very naive to think he could jump in mid-season and make much of an effect. The no playing time thing is a joke. In the extremly limited playing time he did get, he was electrifyingly good. He showed several impressive glimpses. Yes, glimpses, because when you play that little, that's all you have time to show. Stokes, Carroll ... who knows, Trask/Hudson didn't play them, so we'll have to use our imagination or Open Cup matches to judge them. Mapp is a tremendous talent, and he's improving rapidly. His U-17 class had 3 great talents, Ed Johnson, Santino Quaranta, and Justin Mapp. IMHO, Mapp has more potential (but is far more raw) than Santino Quaranta. Make no mistake about it, Mapp is one for the future. -Digital
This group, to have any chance at challenging for MLS Cup again, must come together as a team. As many pointed out, they cannot even spell team right now. The lackluster play against the Fire in the second leg was an embarrassment. The yelling and in-fighting is an embarrassment. The constant bitching to and about the officials is an embarrassment. Most important, we have to get rid of Hristo and Marco. Follow that up with unifying this club as a team on and off the pitch. If we can stay healthy all season long and work for each other, then yes we have the tools right now to be a contender. But having the tools and using them are two different things. I love this club, and I don't think we need wholesale changes to turn it around, but the United playoff team of 2003 is, IMO, the worst playoff team ever. Outside of a few minutes in leg one, we never challenged the Fire and never played quality ball. Hudson does need to let his draft picks develop on the pitch. We have great young talent. He has to stop bringing in older players to try and fill a pressing need. Cerritos wasn't horrible, but does anybody here really think Ronald C. is the answer to our problems? Was anyone thrilled to get him for Ali? If Reyes can come back strong, we've got a great defense. We've got a good keeper. We've got a decent, close to being very good midfield. We need some real finishers up top (hoping Adu can live up to his hype if he does sign). Yes, we're not far from being much better. But that doesn't change the fact that DC United 2003 was a very poor club for the majority of the season.
Sad, but that is probably an accurate statement. As much as I would like to see the both of them stay, they would be foolish to turn down the European money. After all, this is their profession. But don't worry about us; we've faced this problem before. We've several excellent young players in the wings chomping at the bit for an opportunity to show what they can do. And please keep in mind that the Fire have a reputation for finding that special player (example: Piotr Novak) that no one ever heard of.
Hey, Knave, I also find myself in your camp. Our class is gone and what is most disturbing to me, our ability to develop young players seems to be gone also. Now that one's particularly disturbing given the importance of MLS to the development of our national team and to the growth of the sport in the US due to the development of exciting and skilled US players. So, I guess I list myself in the a$$hole category, if holding these beliefs makes one an a$$hole. McOwen, may you find yoursefl surrounded by a$$holes. By the way, why on earth would MLS (or the USSF, if they had any say in it) ever consider dropping Adu into our developmental hell-hole?
Re: Re: There is no "need to reinvent ourselves" DC will continue to have issues with winning because of its system of play. For example, when you face the Fire you play against the entire 11 - not just a few stars. The system of play that Coach Bradley installed encouraged supportive play, and allows players to develop within their position. Razov was nothing at LA before he came to the Fire; within the system Ante has prospered and has become a respected goal scorer. Due to injuries, Coach Sarachan tweaked the system this season so to allow minutes for less experienced players. The best example of its success is Orlando Perez. Surely not National Team material, Perez has turned into a steady player and starts most games. Hudson seems to prefer (If I'm wrong please correct me) the thug version of football played in the UK by lower skilled teams. It's been proven out in English Football that a skill team will win out over a thug team in the long run. I guess the best idea for DC is to get rid of Hudson, hire a coach that believes in total football, and get players that want to play within a team system. Isn’t that what DC had under Arena?
Mapp is going to become one of the best young American players in the league. It's too bad Hudson got rid of him.
Interesting that on the winning goal, left-footed Mapp came down the right side and made a right-footed cross. Marco, Q2, and probably even Convey, would have tried to shift to the left foot, or cut toward the center, rather than make that pass.
If we keep Mapp instead of Dema, we don't make the playoffs this year and are probably worse than Dallas. Some people here might prefer that because then Hudson would surely not come back, but I really couldn't have taken another year in the bottom two. In the long run Mapp might turn out to be better than Dema (if he's a lot better he'll be gone). Given the fact that DC has Convey, Q1, Q2, Eskandarian, Stokes, Carroll, and Namoff (and probably Adu) I'm not too concerned about losing one young player. Just because DC ripped off a couple teams in the early years doesn't mean we have to moan every time one of our former players succeeds elsewhere or every time a player we passed over in the draft does well. It's possible this trade will turn out in Chicago's favor (just like it might turn out Eskandarian was a wasted pick) but it made sense at the time as far as improving the team (just like drafting the best striker in college soccer made sense for a team with no offense). Obviously, Hudson is not as good at developing players as Sarachan or Bradley. Obviously, DC played some pretty ugly ball this year. There's no need to even debate such facts. This has little to do, though, with Mapp making one good run past Marshall Leonard. If you want to support a team that always wins championships, always scores lots of goals, and has a whole reserve team full of the country's best young players you better stop supporting any MLS team (including the Fire, their darkest days are yet to come).
right, whatever Knave DC did play some crap soccer, and hacked a lot. Doom and gloomers still just make me want to watch baseball, or hell, indoor badmitton, anything. Players that mug opposition, or worse, they're own teammates are bad, but mods that whine like that are worse. Come on dude, McOwen should have your job. And before i get labled, read my first sentence, i am not blindly opptimistic, look at the way our team punked out like a bitch in the playoffs. Can't believe you whine like that about Mapp though. DC United does need changes, and they are not in yelling distance of Chi. But Dema rocks, the other mods make signifficant contributions, and you post that snivelling bit of cry-baby tantrum. First DC united is a fat chick, and now, what, they are beneath the splendor that is yourself cheering them on? The moral seems to be with out results, DC is not worth watching. I refuse to subscribe to that theory. If I get into trouble for posting this i have one last thing to say. GO UNITED!!! (but please shoot the ball more)...
Re: right, whatever Knave You missed the whole point of his post then. DC has become everything that I hate as a soccer fan. We complain about every call, we foul needlessly, and we generally make ourselves look bad. We shouldn't have to resort to that. We have more than enough talent on this team that we shouldn't resort to that every single game. The other problem is we have done a pisspoor job of developing talent. Our current coach believes that we can sign experienced players and they will contribute, while barely giving a glance to the players already here. He won't play rookies because they have no experience, yet they can't gain experience if they don't play. It's a truly vicious circle that leaves this team looking ragged. We've had a d-mid all year, but Hudson won't play him because he's a rook. Give the kid a shot and he may surprise you. I just don't understand why the coaching staff hasn't figured these things out themselves. Fans recognize it, but the staff doesn't. It's ridiculous. Any other league and the rookies play at least once in a meaningful game. Any other league and Hudson gets sacked and a new coach comes in who can develop the team and its players.
We've gone from the best team in the league, and in fact the best team in the Western Hemisphere (anyone else remember Interamerican Cup 1998? I do. I drank beer out of the thing. I also have the jersey Roy Lassiter wore in Fort Lauderdale) to a team that barely made the playoffs. It used to be that every team in MLS feared coming to RFK Stadium because United almost always won there. If people want to be happy that we are a shadow of our former selves, I guess that's fine. But I'm NOT happy with this team. I'm NOT happy with they way they play today. I'm NOT happy with what we've become. We were the most feared team in the league. Now we're pretty much laughed at.
Re: right, whatever Knave But many of the rants have been backed up with substantive analysis and reasoned conclusions, from how best to get our midfield organized to whether the coaching staff should be returning next season. What are yours?
Clarification, dude, i'm not happy w/ the bitching at the ref's or w/ the infighting. But knaves post was a mod version of a Marco ref rant. This isn't a "Don't you dare critisize DC United", constructive critisim is needed. But WTF, "DC is an example of everythinig I hate about soccer?" It would be great if DC played like Real Madrid, but they don't, and 'till they do I will pull for them how ever they get it done. The point of my post wasn't that I know how to fix Dc's problems better than Knave, the point of my post was that it's embarrasing to read a post and honsestly not know if it's from a fan or a troll. ps, the bit about having young talent and not using it is totally dead on, and its a shame. And when they do finally pull it together, i am gonna say that i supported them when they were in sux-alvania. And please don't come back w/ how much you sullen few support the team as well, i mean ok, you support them but nobody posted w/ "lets keep Hristo, he's an ok guy" or "I really think DC United will when everthing next year" This is not wild opptimisim, it's just being feed up w/ absolute negativity. What will the next thread be, "lets start bitching about next season right now, why wait for the first game"?
Thanks , but no thanks for the Mod offer. (Even if it would give me the dictatorial power I have been searching for all these years... ) While Jackrock is rambling a bit I think he does make a point that I agree with. I didnt "attack" Knave because of what he thinks, it was simply the way he chose to do it and the reason why he chose to do it. I think his post was a serious troll job. It was also a slight flame against all of us that do not nescessarily agree with the doom and gloom crowd. Sure you're free to have a differing opinion but you do not need to tell the rest us we "can't smell the $hit" as if our opinions are just that. More importantly you shouldnt post something that could have just as easily been placed on the rivalry threads attacking us. Just for fun, lets change some of Knave's pronouns around a bit. You tell me if this couldn't be labeled as a "troll". Now I am not trying to dig this argument back up, but what I am trying to say is that I think his comments were way over the top and had they been written by a Fire fan they would have been deleted. Contrary to forum opinion I am not happy with our team, but I also do not feel the urge to insult those who disagree with me. Saying that we cannot smell $hit and that our coach is a "jack ass" is just over doing it. If you don't think so that's cool. But try to respect those of us they feel otherwise.
I think the "DC embodies everything I hate about soccer" has more to do with the whining and diving and hacking than it does with the not playing like Real Madrid. I think getting rid of Hristo and Marco will help in that area, not only because they're certainly principal culprits of the whining and diving (albeit not so much the hacking), but they, as veterans, help to set the tone of whatever team they're on. Having guys like Nelsen, Olsen, and Stewart as our principal leaders will change that nearly 180 degrees. Of course they bitch some at the refs, everyone does, but they don't let it get in the away of playing the game. Young players like Q2 and Convey will follow the lead of the veterans, be it good or bad. Hopefully next season it will be much better than this season. All that said, I can see why four seasons of barely reaching the level mediocrity can drive some to doom and gloom. Watching DC games is always a highlight of my weekend, and I would never even dream of turning off or leaving a DC game early, but there were definitely times this season when, from a soccer standpoint, it was an exercise in masochism. Another overall disappointing season will of course lend itself to intra-board sniping, but we all want to see DC have a productive winter, and from that a more successful season. Not even the doom and gloom can obscure that.
McOwen - Ridiculous! You have wholly mangled what I wrote. Your rendition is hardly a minor change of pronouns. You've changed the entire meaning of the passage. Indeed, you've inverted its entire meaning. You made it (badly) into a gloat from a Chicago Fire supporter when the entire point of that post is that it's a lament from a DC United supporter. If you can't tell the difference between those two things then ... frankly, I don't believe that you can't tell the difference. So comparing your inverted imitation to what I wrote isn't just inaccurate, it's dishonest. And, moreover, that you wish to make such a comparison either demonstrates once again that you didn't understand anything I was saying or that you're being willfully belligerent. If it's the former, I'm not going to bother to explain it again. Plenty of other posts on this thread have elaborated it quite well enough. If it's the latter, then as they came to mind earlier in this thread so the adjectives juvenile and pathetic again come to mind.