Terry Vaughn :: DC United vs. The ______ ClashQuakes :: Referee Thread :: [R] [N&A]

Re: Terry Vaughn :: DC United vs. The ______ ClashQuakes :: Referee Thread :: [R] [N&

I've been pushing exactly this all year. Vladsta and BBBulldog can tell you about me going on about this while shooting pool last weekend. Collina's a financial analyist; wouldn't NYC be a good place for a financial analyst to be? He got a year extension on the mandatory FIFA retirement; pick him up to administer the refereeing program immediately after!

 

Collina says he loves American refs, but he thinks we run too much.

 

Re: Terry Vaughn :: DC United vs. The ______ ClashQuakes :: Referee Thread :: [R] [N&

The reason the other referees do not get a shot at MLS is because they are not good enough. Many many more than the 32 centers and about 60 ARs have been tried at the MLS level. Most aren't up to snuff and are quickly filtered out of the system. It happened to one referee so far this year, I believe. Both Kennedy and Vaughn are on the Fifa panel. They didn't get there by accident. In the early years of MLS, many more referees were given a shot at the top level than get the chance now. The result was poorer performance and more inconsistancy.

I also watch games from at least five other leagues. I would not say the referees are more consistent nor are their decisions more accepted. The fact is, referees are controversial everywhere. Referees like Collina have been in hot water with their leagues and domestic FAs. A Fifa referee in England showed two cautions to a player and forgot to send him off last year. Another Fifa referee in England was named the worst referee in the country by 442.

An exchange program would be fantastic and has be done in the past. The problem is, our referees were not given top flight opportunities overseas and the referees brought in were not better. MLS is a very difficult league to work. It features a very fast pace and its quite physical.

The assumption you make is that the referees given this opportunity and achieving the white badge do not care. This is patently false. You can't get past USSF grade seven if you don't care. The level of commitment and time away from your family and job required to get to the higher levels is enourmous. There's also a lot of competition on the way up. These guys want to improve because they care and because they want to get the better assignments and stay in the MLS pool. You can't do that without improving. The idea that referees have it in for certain teams just isn't true.

 

Re: Terry Vaughn :: DC United vs. The ______ ClashQuakes :: Referee Thread :: [R] [N&

Funny, a very strong influance on my development as a referee feels the same way.

 

Re: Terry Vaughn :: DC United vs. The ______ ClashQuakes :: Referee Thread :: [R] [N&

I kind of go back and forth on that one myself, although I find I'm usually more in agreement with that perspective when I'm doing four games a day at some tournament.

 

So where do we go from here?
Continue in mediocrity and controversy weekly?
Let thug behavior like Thornton's go un-punished by oblivious officials?
That elbow to the temple Freddy took last week off the ball should go unnoticed. despite an official standing within 10 feet?
How do yall officiating pundits suggest the League improve the situation?

 

It doesn't happen overnight. I don't think anyone will argue the fact that the refereeing in MLS is light years ahead of what it was ten years ago, as is the level of play.

 

Re: Terry Vaughn :: DC United vs. The ______ ClashQuakes :: Referee Thread :: [R] [N&

I can say for one that bringing in Collina might be nice but does not guarentee immediate improvement. You seem to assume that nothing is done about anything you bring up. The Thornton issue is certainly on the USSF radar and techniques on dealing with this have been brought to the attention of referees. Even at the region 1 youth championships a couple of weeks ago Sandra Hunt brought this issue up and provided some guidance to identify, prevent, and deal with such behavior. That information was no different than what's been brought to the referees in MLS. The Adu incident, which I did not see, will certainly go out to the referees and be reviewed by the league if it warrants it. It's not going to be satisfying but the MLS game moves very fast and referees will miss things. A clip like this will make referees more aware of the things the should be mindful of and hopefully reduce the number of times something like this is missed. I can also say, as odd as it may sound, that sometimes the hardest things to catch are the things that happen in front of you. There's 22 players out there on a field that measures over 8000 square yards. There's a lot to pay attention to so you just can't always catch everything. Its no different than players who miss passes and marking assignments. Humans just make mistakes. It happens in every league in every country on the planet.

 

Re: Terry Vaughn :: DC United vs. The ______ ClashQuakes :: Referee Thread :: [R] [N&

I don't believe you. Or, if it is, it's the slowest-moving radar on the globe. His "attack" on Jaime wasn't exactly the first time; he's been doing this for literally years now, with no real reaction from the refs.

 

Re: Terry Vaughn :: DC United vs. The ______ ClashQuakes :: Referee Thread :: [R] [N&

Which is exactly what Sandra Hunt said. The mistake on the part of the referee was that he did not consider Thornton's history nor did he anticipate what will happen. You can not believe me but I know for a fact this is apoint that's been delivered to the referees since the incident and I also saw and heard the message delivered personally.

You'd be shocked at just how many things a referee at that level need to consider or keep in mind. During that incident, the referee just forgot one and was late to react. That's going to happen but the positive is that referees will be more proactive in dealing with this situation in general and Mr Thornton more specifically.

 

I'd like to point out what is commonly referred to (among Referees) as the "Meola Rule", which applies to keepers who come screaming out of their area to argue a call at midfield. This is a prime example of the league reacting to incidents such as Thornton's.

 

"There have been recent confrontations resulting from a player retrieving a ball from the net after his team has scored and a member of the opposing team taking exception to it. The best way to avoid this problem is to get to the ball before the player does."

This doesn't specify any course of action or disciplinary policy recommendations in the event the official doesnt get there first.

 

Additionally, that can be near impossible for the ref to get there. It's been awhile since I've reffed but if memory serves they aren't running touch line to touch line instead they would be running a diaganol ending at the penalty area. That being the case, how would they ever be able to beat a player except in the case where someone "Etchevary's it from midfield?".

In this specific case, it was a penalty so it's possible that he could beat Moreno to the ball - but I don't see how this really solves the issue.

thanks for the link though - interesting.

 

To a large extent, that's up to the league. You need to remember that the USSF is a subcontractor.

 

That's a big topic of discussion. In my opinion, it's not a realistic solution.

 

Re: Terry Vaughn :: DC United vs. The ______ ClashQuakes :: Referee Thread :: [R] [N&

If Jaime had been more seriously injured, as looked to be the case initially, that would have been very cold comfort indeed. It essentially parses as the refs saying "sorry we didn't deal with yet another offense by a known serial offender correctly, but we'll give it special attention in the future." If they knew he was a serial offender to begin with -- and everybody did -- then presumably they were already supposed to be giving it special attention, right? I can't see anything different in this.

 

I meant that in the sense of immediate, on field recourse by the official.

 

Let's not be naive, here. Yes, Thornton has a history reacting badly when attacking players remove the ball from his net -- but don't you think Jaime Moreno knew that? Besides trying to get a faster restart, don't kid yourself. He was trying to get a rise out of a goalkeeper by doing something that was guaranteed to wind him up, and maybe get a card out of it. Should the ref have obliged? Sure. Did Jaime know what he was getting into when he picked up the ball. Most certainly.

 

Re: Terry Vaughn :: DC United vs. The ______ ClashQuakes :: Referee Thread :: [R] [N&

And this has what to do with our discussion of refereeing, exactly? What, in our conversation about how the ref should have dealt with the situation, has been naive?

TIA.

 

Though gamesmanship may have been Jaime's intent, that DOES NOT excuse Thornton's behavior.

But that wasnt the focus of the post, was it?
Mark

 

Why should referee performance be any different than player performances? What's with the double secret top secret bs? Put the public eye squarely on these guys. The good ones can take it, the bad ones will wilt.

The other day Kevin Stott, one of MLS' best referees was downright insulted by telefutura announcers for his lack of performance in Houston for So Africa vs Guatemala. I wouldn't go as far as they did, but Kevin has most def had better games.

Anyway, back to the main thrust: if futbol is serious about improving refs and diminishing "referee abuse", the results of reviews should be public as should the ratings. Knowing the fed is doing something about it will take some of the wind from the sails of folks otherwise itching to b!tch and moan and less abuse will be the result. The refs also need to have enough "personality" to tell players to shut the eff up and have the players believe him. They should also have the good sense to admit when they blew a call.

Esse was a damn good ref, but he hasn't been producing the goods quickly enough, IMO. The fed should spend more money improving refs at pro level and less on their frigging travel budget. If Esse can't do it, find somebody who will be more aggressive.

Dave B, I already unloaded in another thread. Having said that, Vaughn used to be a real good ref. He bungled the call where the diving surfer dude bought a pk and it cost us two points (but probably helped to keep the drooler in comeblowus longer). The last game he reffed here I don't remember any egregiously bad decisions. I think he is an MLS average ref now. I hope he gets near the Barra tonight!

The progress of MLS skill is light years ahead of referee progress.

If you've got the stones, reffing is not so difficult as all the officials would have you believe. Trust me, it's harder to pass a backspinning ball 40 yards to someone's foot or head.

GM