"Teams Patrice Evra Hasn't Lied to the FA About" - OTT 20 [R]

Hit that for six, Pikas

 

Raul had chemistry w/ his teammates that the replacements have not come close to replicating.

 

FYP

By my count, Raul won at least 5 games for us last season and this season.

 

Sorry, bud. You've both been bowled out. Raul was very good for us, and most of us realized it last year.

And, we all thought he was better than Adam or Henderson also.

 

He wasn't a messiah, and he wasn't poor. He won games for us, had good chemistry. He had poor games and good ones, and the important bit was that he tried. He ran his ********ing socks off and it showed. That's the end of it, no reason to slag him. No reason to remember him past 4-5 years from now.

 

Wow. You really went out on a limb here, didn't you?

If you're going to metaphorically bang your fist on the table and tell people what for, in an effort to end the debate once and for all, you might want to actually state something substantial.

If not, why not just ignore the argument?

 

Well stats tell only half the story, I'm sure you know that. If you compare Raul's performances for us to Adams' in the same time span its not really that close is it?

 

Someone stated that Raul single handedly saved our season another stated that his performance was immense last season. I disagreed with both. He was good and should of been rewarded with a new contract, within reason, but lets not kid ourselves we'd be significantly better with him in the team.

Last season, with Raul, we finished 6th and crashed out of both cups at the first attempt. This season. despite our rotten league form, we've qualified for Europe and improved on last season. Not as much as we wanted but improved nonetheless.

Raul went to the team who finished 2nd last year who have Torres,who we'd all have over Carroll, and Mata, who we'd all have over Downing, spent more than us once again and had AVB as manager, who some of you wanted instead of Kenny, and are struggling to get into the top 4.

 

I don't think he single handedly carried the team, although he did single handedly win us some pretty important points, but he was a sizable part of Dalgish's turnaround. I don't think there' a question about whether we'd be a better team with him or not. If he was still here he'd start, thats enough of an indicator that his departure has not been covered adequately and that we would benefit, as a team, from having him here.

I don't see any improvement to be honest. If anything, we're playing worse, cup runs aside. To me that is the true sign of progress, what we're doing as a team on the field for 90 minutes every week. Look at how many embarrassing results and performances we've had. That's not acceptable or indicative of progress.

I don't think its relevant where he want.

 

We've qualified for Europe this year. Thats progress on last year and the year before when we were given Poirtsmouths place on account of their financial problems. 'We've won our first silverware in 6 years. In the previous two seasons we'd won one domestic cup game and this year we are undefeated in both. It is progress. It may not be enough for you and many others, and that's fair enough, but there has been progress.

Is it relevent how he's playing then? Because by most accounts he's having a poor season.

I had a look at the end of season poll we did last season. I actually gave him an 8(a good season) as opposed to most who thought he was only deserving of a 7.

 

We qualified for Europe the worst way possible. And even that we nearly blew quite comically. If it was up to our league form then we wouldn't even be close to living up to our standards. We're being beaten out by Everton and Newcastle for crying out loud. If we get to the FA Cup final and win that then I'll be impressed.

Again, I measure progress by how we play week in and week out and how our players and manager perform. That's the bread and butter of the club and a football team.

Do you think Torres would be playing poorly if he was still with us? I think every player suffers when nothing is going right at a club, even ours. That doesn't mean he wouldn't be a useful player to have. He has certain qualities that we are lacking and those don't disappear in a poor run of form.

 

because the debate over whether he 'saved our season' or whether he 'wasn't good enough' is frankly getting old.

Sometimes overstated moderation (as in achieving a mean of these viewpoints) is exactly what this forum needs.

People need to admit he was good, but also recognize that letting him go wasn't a terrible decision. He would have improved the club this year, but his wages (as they should have been raised), age, and sometimes less than stellar performance did not justify him sticking around.

Just put a fork in Miereles, it's dead.

 

You're right. Where's the need for debate and differing opinions on a message board?

There was a horrible myth propagated last summer that it was good to ditch Meireles and Aquilani b/c they cost too much salary. Well, I'd hate to break it to everyone, but if we want to be in the top 4, we have to pay a salary commensurate with that status.

Right now, we're paying like Newcastle, Sunderland, or Everton, and surprise; we're competing with Newcastle, Sunderland, and Everton.

If we had kept Meireles, we'd easily have been better off now, because we wouldn't have been struggling to replace Gerrard with Adam all year.

 

Sorry, they're better than us in judt about every footballing sense but mostly commitment.

... plus he and Aquilani were very poor defensively and shirked the hard graft.

 

Ok what Pikas and I stated wasn't that Raul wasn't good but that he didn't save our season with his great play. Is he better than Adam. certainly. might we have kept him? Yes but frankly he wanted to go to Chelski.they wanted him and he was mad about lies told him by Hodgson. Case over.

 

Sorry. None of that was a certainty, and he would have easily stayed if we wanted him.

 

The point about all this is Liverpool brought in players who have not improved the first team while letting go of those who quite conceivably would not have made us any worse. It was a gamble, although there was justifiable nervousness among those who followed the acquisitions. Plan backfired and must be acknowledged as such.

So why have they failed? Unless a proper reflection is made, there is the danger is that the mistake may be repeated, surely?

 

Messi
50 games
60 goals
24 assists

 

Why not Liverpool go for Messi?

 

Only four players have scored 60+ goals before. He can break Müller's record this season. Not to mention that he has over 30 assists already as well so he's been involved in close to 100 goals for Barca this season. That's just insane.

 

I am sorry but just because you assert something isn't so doesn't mean it isn't. Raul was promised a wage increase in the second season by Hogdson. Raul said so. Our management said he could stay on lesser wages. meanwhile AVB and his Portugese revolution was coming to Chelski and agreed to a big wage increase for him. He took it. This is all fact.

 

And that goes both ways. Because, if you remember, you were the first one to make such a statement by emphatically stating one poster's argument was beyond any such reproach.

So, if you post a one-line statement that asserts someone is 100%, dead-on, couldn't possible be proven wrong, absolutely, undeniably correct, then I am happy to chime in and do the same.