Discussion in 'Colorado Rapids' started by MockaMooDoe, Sep 5, 2002.
This should be interesting !!!!!
Who are your choices and WHY !!!
Henderson's had a good year, Chung too, Carrieri has made a bid, Titus has done well in the back but I don't think any defender this year is MVP.
I would say Carrieri; I know he hasn't exactly made his mark on the scoring tables, but he works harder than anyone else on the team IMHO, and he's young. Chris could be the future of our club...
Mark Chung is most valuable because he is indispensible. We know the team can play without Spenny, who would have been the serious preseason candidate. Nobody really dreads the day the El Pibe has to sit a game for yellow card accumulation. Henderson has had to be subbed out frequently near the end of games, but the complexion of the game doesn't change. Chung is indespensible. He is what El Pibe should be at a central midfield position, can run around, attack the opposition on the run, distribute, and has a accurate and powerful shot. He is a lesser version of what the #10 position will (should) be over the next ten years, much in the mold of Zinedine Zidane.
For me it's a tossup between Hendo and Chung. We'll have to wait and see if one steps up as a hero in the next two games... or in the playoffs, for that matter.
I agree with Hanki's statements about Chung, although Henderson really isn't subbed off that often. (and when he is, it's usually pretty damn late). One other HUGE factor about Chung is that he's not earned a single caution this year -- considering the "black and blue" ************************ he's surrounded by, this is significant.
The big value about Henderson that I see is that he's been quite versatile this year. He's never spent much time as a forward in his career, yet has stepped up fairly well in recent weeks and has continued to produce. While I'd still prefer two pure strikers -- namely Spenny and Carrieri -- alongside each other, the team has performed significantly better on the attack once Hendo was moved out of the midfield to work with Carrieri up top.
For what it's worth, Henderson has a much higher percentage of shots that are on target than Chung. 50% of Hendo's are on goal compared to 41% for Chung. It doesn't sound like a major difference, but considering the two are close in total SOG (30 Chung, 27 Henderson) and the fact that Chung has taken 19 more shots than Hendo, I think it's significant.
Of course, both have missed a couple of sitters inside the box and given that the offense is largely geared around them taking cracks at goal, their SOG totals should be a bit higher.
For overall worth, I would have to choose Chung. Hendo never stops running, and has made many contributions, but Chung is the one that consistently gets the ball through midfield and starts things happening. I certainly could make a case, too, for Carrieri. While he may not win the MLS' Most Noble Player Award, he has come through for the Raps time and time again, despite being knocked down 15-20 times a game because of his small stature. When you see him standing next to Califf or Lalas, you realize how unbelievably small he is compared to the guys that are marking him. Looking at the league stats, a case could be made for any one of the three. Who would have though we would have three in the upper echelons, and that not one of them would be John Spencer. The real vote will come in about a month, when we see what the Raps are really made of. Still, I can't see it being anyone other than one of those 3.
My favorites in order:
1) Chung (25games, 10g, 9a)
2) Carrieri (23games, 11g, 5a)
3) Henderson (26games, 11g, 6a)
It's pretty decent to look at the top 10 MLS points leader board and see all three of these guys.
I'm beginning to wonder if Pibe will begin to care. He sleep walks through some games, but we'll be in the playoffs in 3 games, and Pibe may surprise us and start playing like he cares. It's glorious to watch Carlos when he plays to win (even at 45 yrs old).
I like Pablo, Carrieri, Chung and Henderson alot but I'd have to say that CC is the guy who has come through when we most needed it. I'd have to say Chris Carrieri is the MVP.
I fail to see why you post games when we have the stats for minutes handy.
Carrieri 1647, .874 (goals+asssits per 90)
Chung 2211, .773
Henderson 2224, .688
Since it's pretty much been narrowed down to these three players, another stat to give Carrieri a little edge is the number of game winning goals. Carrieri has 5 which is tied for third in the league. Chung has 3. Hendo has 2. Carrieri scores when the crunch is on. Carrieri is also 7th in the league in points per 90 minutes with neither Chung nor Hendo being in the top ten. Though this stat is not that telling with Edson Buddle and Jeff Cunningham being 3rd and 4th respectively. Right now, I would give the nod to Carrieri but there are still 2 games to play and both Hendo and Chungy are breathing on his neck.
I fail to see why I should care about this. My reason for listing Chung first was because someone has to set them up. Chung does what Pibe is supposed to do. This has made the Rapids far more watchable than nearly any past year. Carrieri had a bad June (IMHO), started looking real good in July/August, and was mostly unused prior to June. This does not make someone candidate for MVP.
I'll also disagree with gschroeder's opinion that Pablo should be considered. Mastroeni needs to learn not to take yellows EVERY SINGLE GAME. It hurts the team. And how can a defender win MVP when we've allowed 46 goals against (second worst in the league).
Seconded. Discipline, discipline, Pablo really needs to learn this to take his game to the next level.
MVP: to me, that's the player who's made the most consistent, overall positive impact on the pitch. That's Chung.
I wasn't actually saying Pablo is mosr desrvant of MVP, although I do think he has made a positive impact (we get killed every time he doesn't play). Might not be related but it's notable. If You want my picks in order:
That would be my order too!!! Because of his contributions in the crunch, Carrieri has to be number one. Chung brings the game forward constantly. Hendo never stops running and scores often when given the chance. Pablo intimidates the midfield, and also brings the ball forward well. They all are significant contributors to a much improved season than last. It is easy to forget what last season looked like at this time. Even though the Raps are often inconsistent, they are miles ahead of where they were this time last year.
Bring on the rest!!! Go Raps!!!!!
If you guys don't realize that Chungy is your MVP please return him back to the Metrostars in the same gift wrapping he was originally sent.
He is missed a great deal by his fans, who always felt that he went UNDER-appreciated by the Metros and the USMNT. He is a class act and I guess that's why he goes under-appreciated.
Carrieri may have performed in the crunch better than other players on this team, but having 5 game-winners is not something to be trumpeted from the rooftops.
Carrieri's performance against Dallas was the best he's ever put on while in a Rapids uniform; his 90-minute effort combined with the guts he showed on the winning goal were fantastic.
Similarly, his July 4th performance was truly a standout.
That said, Carrieri has been offered far too many sitters only to put them wide and high, or directly at the keeper. Oftentimes he's wound up in or near the box with the ball yet has been unable to find the open man, or hold the ball up for his defenders.
In no way do I intend to be negative of Carrieri's contributions this year; he's clearly one of our top 3 performers. However, for team MVP I want to see real consistency, and Chris just hasn't delivered in that department throughout the entire season.
As Hanki put it, a major consideration should be made as to the replacability of a player... and if there were one single player that I'd be most worried about not being available for the playoffs, at this point it's Chung.
Good post, greenie. You actually swayed my thinking a bit. But Carrieri has to learn by doing, and at the beginning of the year Carrieri wasn't given much of a chance to do. His stats are up there with Chung's and Hendo's but he's played 6 1/2 less games. You say you want consistency, that he hasn't been performing this way the entire season. He's sat the bench for almost 1/4th of the season. I agree with you that Chung deserves a hard look for team MVP but it's not Carrieri's fault that he hasn't always been given the chance to contribute. If Carrieri is given that fourth and he puts away some of those balls that you criticize him for (rightly so) we're looking at Twellmanesque numbers. Probably higher, cause every now and again Carrieri directs a ball towards a teammate with a nice look at goal. As irreplaceable as Chung is, I would be equally sad to be missing someone as explosive as Carrieri.
Carieris job is to score goals. He is the closest person to the goal most of the times. He is given the ball most often to score and he should therefore have twice the amount of goals and points that Chung has. This is not the case. Carieri is not half as explosive as Graziani,cannot dribble like DeRosario or Cunningham,,and cannot turn a defender like Ruiz or Twellman. To attain these level of play he has to improve a whole lot and I am not sure he has the skills to do that. Colorado for next year need to find a striker with the ability similar to some of the names above in order to win a championship. I am sorry we will not do it with the likes of Carieri. That said he has improved from the start of the year and I hope he continues.
Daksims, I agree that it's not Carrieri's fault that he was rarely used early in the season and that it certanly has had an effect on his consistency.
However, whether it's his fault or not it is still an issue to me, and I agree fully with pigtail in that if the team MVP is to be a striker this year then I'd expect he be putting up significantly higher numbers.
Count my vote in for Chung. Carrieri would be second followed by Henderson. All three are real close, but Chung has been the rock on this team.
My vote is for Chung. Carrieri and Henderson do not work as hard as Chung and maintain a lead in points for the Rapids. Chung does the work for two sometimes three people. These three people include Chung himself, Valderama, and Palacios (when he plays). Chung is consistent, takes control of the midfield when Valderama doesn't feel like it and still plays hard when the team is losing. In addition to his high skill level, he has great sportmanship. He is a veteran who is underappreciated in this league and deserves his place in the limelight. I do believe Carrieri and Henderson deserve to be in the running, but ultimately the MVP award should go to Chung...hands down.
Wow, that is a pretty bold statement considering that Henderson works his a$$ off for the entire game and many times is sent on usless chases after balls down the wing. Don't forget that he has been playing out of position since Spennie has been out. I'm not convinced he should be MVP, but nobody on the team works harder than Chris Henderson, including Chung.
I'll agree on Chendo's workrate. However, that same workrate, often expended needlessly on poor passes, takes him out of the game after 60 mins frequently.
I wouldn't necessary say that either. Hendo is by far the fittest player on the Rapids and possibly the league. He can make the same run at 80 minutes.
I checked with the Rapids website and Henderson has been taken off 8 times:
v. LA - 88th minute - 1-0 win
v. Dallas - 59th minute - 4-1 loss
v. Dallas - 64th minute - 3-1 loss
v. NY - 73rd minute - 1-0 win
v. Chicago - 78th minute - 2-1 loss
v. NE - 85th minute - 3-2 win
v. Dallas - 70th minute - 2-2 tie
v. LA - 66th minute - 4-0 loss
What does this tell us, ummm not much other than he doesn't finish the game against Dallas much. But only once was he taken off before 60 minutes and he injured his ankle in that game if I remember correctly. Otherwise, he is usually taken off when the game is a blowout, for whatever reason.
Not sure what my point is but I think it is that Henderson can go for as long at Hanki lets him.
No doubt Chris is the hardest working man in MLS. Plus he dishes out assists, scores goals, and is often overlooked because he is a genuinely nice guy (see Mooch Myernik and the inexplicable benching of Chris to get Joey Digi-no longer in soccer-marino more playing time). I think based on his contributions he is a strong candidate for MVP. Right there with Chung and Carrieri.