I'm watching The Palace versus Liverpool highlights and I'm like Palace Runner 3421 and they don't seemed overwhelmed. It's something with our Midfield. It looks like they are fine. I don't watch as much football as you guys so I'm really curious as to it's Palace is Midfield is full of just an industrious six and eight because I think that's what we need if we're going to have a two man midfield.
It's a bit of both imo. Yes the "system" doesn't suit some of the players but at the end of the day these people are professionals. I mean the coaches and the players. For example, I work in IT and it is constantly changing e.g. I started out as a Cobol programmer(yes, I'm old) and have gone through many iterations and now I'm an AI Architect. I know some of you will say well that's not the same thing but I say why not? Why can't a player learn a new system? They should be able to because they are highly talented individuals at what they do and are way better than any of us could dream to be. So what do the coaches tell them in practice, what do they practice on etc? We've seen other teams change systems and be successful when they're coached properly. To me it's combination of 1- the players don't understand the new system because they're not being taught properly, 2- some players know the system but can't execute it due to limitations(Maguire), 3- the system sucks because other teams have figured how to easily combat the system by flooding the midfield. Something has got to give at this stage. Either Amorim has to realize the system is not working/being learned and has to drop it or he's got to go. We can't keep going on like this.
Word around the campfire that Amorim compensation package is £12m but drops to £4m in November (presumably when he has been here a year). So; 04 Oct Sunderland (h) 19 Oct Liverpool (a) 25 Oct Brighton (h) 01 Nov Forrest (a) 08 Nov Spurs (a) 24 Nov Everton (h) He may choose to quit given his previous statements but if the Nov thing true then he should survive the Liverpool game (which did it for EtH & Ole). Spurs game has a break after it - so maybe 5 games to start turning things around.
In my view this is exactly why we are struggling and why I also feel a new manager (and the former managers) struggled. Based on the summer reports it would seem that Amorim wanted that 6 (in Baleba) and was open to sanction the Bruno to Saudi move but that didn't come.
He also told the board (and the media) that he would walk away with no compensation - so while those are just words, I expect if the club came to him now and offered a sum closer to the Nov payout figure to leave now he probably would. I expect we will see this go to December / January area to see if the results start to turn around
So we basically need to find a Kante before Leicester got him and Baleba before Brighton found him. This is why I believe we should hold on to Kobe. I think he has the ability to be the type of 8 to fit in the system but he needs of much more mobile 6 than the two we've got
Ole, ETH weren't playing amorim formation. Exclusive 💣: Formation request & sacked 🔜 😟According to sources at Manchester United ▪️ Ruben Amorim was called in by the bosses at @ManUtd for urgent ‼️ meeting ▪️The manager has been asked to change the formation to 4-3-3 ▪️ Ruben Amorim was left speechless 😶 with… pic.twitter.com/LR0iZ7vN4Q— indykaila News (@indykaila) September 29, 2025
So where do people sit on the Amorim in / out debate in terms of timeline and replacements? Personally haven't fully given up on him just yet as don't think is ever a good look to sack a manager inside a year. The Spurs game on 8th Nov will be a good time to take stock though (over 10 games) and if we are still doing Brentford type things then he has to go then imo. The mistakes with Maguire in a high-line and Bruno in a pivot are hard to look past, especially if he persists (definition of insanity being doing the same things and expecting different results). Plus too much instability from constant changes to players and positions. As we have started doing with players, we must get an EPL proven coach so we don't go through this again (also bc it rules out Southgate). Glasner would be my pick and if we have to wait until the end of the season so be it. We could have some fun with an interim meantime (Ole & Carrick would be great as a cameo only)
I dont know how you guys find it so easy to discuss who should replace our forever changing manager. We've tried older more experienced managers [some PL proven] such as Jose Mourinho, we had Van Gaal, we had Moyes. We've tried less experienced for [allegedly refreshing] managers who offer a newer fresher approach in Ole, ETH. Weve had Ragnick, who else? Glasner, Iraola, Moyes 2.0 [Southgate]... How long are we going to do this dance? We still havent officially cleared out all the dead wood. The positive is that we are not in a position squad management wise, where we are completely wedded to the 3cb system. We can go back to a back 4 for now. Midfield would still suck. Defense would probably be worse, then Cunha has to play out of position on the left.... you know what? Nevermind.
Thats why I like a 4411 - Mbuemo on the left as an inverted winger, Cunha as CAM, Diallo as right inverted winger. Bench Bruno and play Ugarte/Mainoo as the DCM.
Dont want to change manager as we have actually made some progress on parts of the squad (despite very clearly effing up DM & GK which were priotities). However Amorim has made it pretty clear he wont change the system (esp 3 CB). So a change of formation equals a change of manager - you cant argue for both. He has also recently started going for the deadwood options which is a wrong turn for me as I see Maguire, Shaw and Dalot as part of the remaining deadwood and yet they are playing when other options available. Bruno is deadwood when played in a pivot. My hope is he stops sabotaging himself with his player selections. Amorim wont last if we remain around 14th after another half dozen games or so, that is just modern football reality. Plus I think he leaves of his own volition at that point. We are underperforming what we have with him. Any EPL manager gets the team below to at least mid-table if not 6th or 7th playing regular 4-3-3 / 4-2-3-1. Sesko Cunha, Bruno, Mbeumo Mainoo, Casemiro Dorgu, Yoro, De Ligt, Maz Lammens If he sticks with Maguire as a high CB and keeps playing Bruno at pivot then I know how this movie / dance ends
The international break has me reflecting again on the growing calls for Amorim to shift Manchester United to a back four. I understand the rationale—there’s a belief that the squad is better suited to a 4-2-3-1 or even a 4-4-2—but I think that overlooks the deeper tactical benefits of the current system. In my view, the back three with wing-backs isn’t just a stylistic choice; it’s a structural protection, especially for our central midfielders. In a 3-4-3 or 3-4-2-1, the midfield has: Three center-backs behind them, offering more cover and better ball progression. Wing-backs who can drop deep or push high depending on the phase of play. Two advanced midfielders or “10s” who help press and recycle possession. Compare that to a 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2, where the midfield often has just two defenders behind them and one 10 ahead. That setup leaves them exposed—especially in transitions—and we’ve seen the consequences of that not long ago. Go back 18 months and we were getting battered by Championship-level sides and mid-table Premier League teams alike. Over 20 shots per game conceded, chance after chance on the break, and a midfield that looked non-existent. That’s no longer the case. Amorim’s system has firmed up the defensive half and started to unlock the offensive side as well. We’re now seeing: Fewer chances conceded, especially in transition. Improved xG and shot creation, even if conversion remains an issue. A more compact and layered structure, which helps both in pressing and buildup. The push for a back four seems rooted in tradition and a desire to see certain players in more familiar roles. But the reality is, this squad might look even worse in a 4-2-3-1. The current system gives them structure and as the players continue to internalize the patterns and responsibilities, we’ll see even more fluidity and instinctive play and of course we will need to get more legs in MF and replace Casemiro and Ugarte. Just my thoughts
Amorim as he has stated many times wont change his overall system and I am fine with that if he and the players can get the details right. Getting the details wrong is what has done the damage this season. In the City game we needed 1 of the back 3 to step out (“jump”) and make up the numbers in midfield and they didnt. So 3 marked Haaland while Foden / Doku / Reijnders especially had the run in front. Details … Sunderland was interesting in that there was evolution in the details. It was less symmetrical too - Amad getting forward more and Dalot tucking in behind Bruno made it a back 4 in some phases. He also often had Sesko plus one (ie two up) with one of Mount or Mbeumo (though mostly Mount) dropping back into midfield. Sesko and Mbeumo offering the flick-on & runner from a turnover punt meaning the oppo had to leave 3 back giving us +1 elsewhere. So some asymmetry in the roles of the two WB and also the two #10s to better cover the centre. Some much needed variation plus Mount & Amad well suited to these roles. The intensity was woeful in City and Brentford games and that is unforgivable. For sure that is more on the players and apparently Bruno in the huddle pre-game v Sunderland laid down the law on this. Amorim will need to protect the middle properly against Liverpool, especially if he continues to play Bruno pivot (please not this fixture away). Otherwise will end up like the City game sadly.
i'm not ready to give up on Ugarte yet. people have been very negative about him. i am not bothered that he can't pass long or like Carrick or whatever. if you knew him before he joined you knew what he brought and what he didn't. my only concern is for a guy that's supposed to be a runner he rarely completes 90 mins. maybe he never has for United to date. someone i am ready to move on from is Dalot. he just isn't the exciting dribbling 19 year old FB at Porto. at best he's shown a solid decent level but nothing spectacular. we need better. nice guy but i'd rather not conduct another Shaw experiment
Amorim, after already having basically one entire preseason and 75% of a season, decided that Casemiro is a better option, consistently... so far. Amorim knows what he's about already know?
That's what also concerns me on Ugarte - you would think he would have the upper hand but clearly doesn't over Casemiro, who frankly has surprised me so far this year
that is odd, but so is his persistence with Shaw. and Maguire. likewise Fernandes at CM. these do not strike anyone as genius choices. my stance remains unchanged. there must be some utility in Ugarte. if Amorim can't find it that's poor by him. likewise Mainoo
Our stats are horrible this season when Casemiro doesn't play (usu for Ugarte). Hadn't realised that Cas had missed so many minutes - often subbed around 60/70 and didn't start when we were especially bad this season (Brentford, Grimsby, City etc.) and that is not a coincidence. Ugarte problem is consistency - when Ugarte is bad he is really bad. Reminds me of Fred in that when his passing radar is out it is proper gone. They are very different DMs. Cas better as a deep #6 who read / positions and passes whereas Ugarte is a higher-up pressing #6 mobile ball-chaser / destroyer of the win it and give it short type. Shame we haven't seen both Cas and Ugarte, as ones strengths is the others weakness to an extent, so as a pair they would complement each other (could alternate with Mainoo too). Bruno as pivot just puts too much workload on the other pivot and Cas deals with it slightly better than Ugarte. The Bruno pivot as the go-to just needs to end. UPDATE — Open play defense data in the PL with and without Casemiro With Casemiro — 325 mins played — 15 shots conceded — 1.37 xGC conceded — 0.38 xGC per 90— 0.09 xGC per shotWithout Casemiro — 305 mins played— 23 shots conceded — 5.02 xGC conceded — 1.48 xGC per… pic.twitter.com/TkBTOF1Mgi— FPL Frasier (@FPLfrasier) October 4, 2025
I dont think his persistance with Shaw and Maguire is as weird as his reluctance to play Ugarte. He rates them higher than you do. All the other mysterious decisions have at least been explained. Kobbie's absence, Maguire and Shaw's selection. Fernades at CM. All of these, Amorim discussed in the media his logic or thoughts behind those things. Unless I missed something, he's never really spoken about Ugarte and his role, or his absence.
Amorim has spoken about Ugarte strengths at roaming and pressing, he is for sure also aware that Bruno roams and consequently when playing someone alongside Bruno at pivot needs someone to sit more (not Ugarte strength). Easier to judge Amorim current view on Ugarte based on starts, results, subs and post-match. Ugarte started with Mainoo vs Grimsby, was a disaster and Ugarte was subbed for Bruno at half-time. Amorim took a lot of heat post-match. Ugarte started with Bruno vs Man City (which many were surprised about), was a disaster and Amorim again got a lot of heat post-match and specifically very defensive post-match when asked about Bruno in midfield. Pointed out it was successful against Arsenal etc. .... with Casemiro .... Ugarte started with Bruno vs Brentford (Cas suspended), was a disaster eg 2-0 down after 20 minutes. Hooked at 66 minutes for Maguire ... Again, Amorim took heat in the post-match press conference. Ugarte is getting minutes at end of games when Casemiro legs have gone, but no other starts. The performances and results in the above games when he did start shows why. As long as Amorim sticks with Bruno pivot it will be a Cas / Bruno to start in midfield - results if nothing else show why (Ugarte / Bruno is too ill-disciplined as both roam, has been a fkg disaster pair). As long as he sticks with Bruno at pivot, Ugarte is fighting for Cas place and Mainoo fighting for Bruno place. Amorim has said as much and mostly shown it in his starts and subs.