Tar Heel free agents. Who will Parlow sign?

Discussion in 'Portland Thorns FC' started by WPS_Movement, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    There is a union for the USWNT (players association, which has different legal implications....easier to strike.)

    Without a CBA all this will be moot and we get to start over.
     
  2. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So, I was right about the USWNT players. But, unionization is employer-specific. In other words, the fact that the USWNT has a union means the players are represented by a union for purposes of their employment relationships with the USSF, which I assume is the employer. The USSF and the players' union negotiate the terms of their collective bargaining agreement. I suppose a term of employment covered by the agreement could relate to compensation for USWNT bargaining group members who are playing in the NWSL as compared to compensation for group members who are not.

    The USSF-WNT collective bargaining agreement, however, cannot define the terms of employment for employees of the NWSL. For that there must be (1) a union for employees of the NWSL and (2) a CBA between NWSL and its employees. I'm doubting that either of these conditions exists. So, I think at present it's a matter of a contract between each player and each team. I'm sure that over time this all will work itself out, but for now I'm betting it's a free for all except for the piece between the USSF and the WNT union members, which I'm guessing is in the negotiation process as we post.
     
  3. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    I'm not sure you can separate the USWNT from the NWSL as far as the residency players is concerned. They will be payed by USSoccer, and FIFA and the Federal government will see them as the employers of record.

    FIFA will tell you they are only on loan to whichever club they are assigned to.

    In addition, at least one other player( the WNY allocation subsidy) will be paid by the USSF.

    Plus, they take daily direction from an employer, which makes separating them a bit tough.

    ( I had my bosses try to make me a subcontractor once, the Feds nixed the idea)
     
  4. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    I don't think it is a union. It is a players association. As such the USSF has less power to use anti strike regulations.

    There is (was) a CBA, though. At least the USSF thinks there is.

    http://www.ussoccer.com/news/womens...iation-finalize-collective-bargaining-ag.aspx

    Plus, FIFA will see the players as USSF employees on loan to clubs, which they can't do unless players agree, according to FIFA.
     
  5. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Union-Players' Association, I don't know the difference ... which is my point. But they have a collective bargaining agreement .... I'm not concerned about the USWNT members. The point I'm making is that we have no indication that any of the other players, at this point, are covered by any collective bargaining agreement. If they aren't, then each player contract is a matter between the player and her team.
     
  6. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    I guess I'm not being clear. You can't separate employee groups arbitrarily without consent, nor can you price fix draft players without representation from a representing group. It's illegal.

    The only way the nba does it is by getting the approval of the players association. They pay different amounts for three years according what round you were drafted in.
     
  7. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I still don't understand what you're saying. All I'm saying is that apart from the USWNT players, there are no "represented" players at this point. Each player is on her own in terms of what her contract with her NWSL will say. That probably also is true of the USWNT members -- meaning, their contracts with the USSF likely will be different than their contracts with the NWSL. But for non WNT members, it seems pretty clear that they are on their individual own for the moment.

    I started posting about this because some posters were assuming the non-USWNT players have a collective bargaining agreement. So far as I know, they don't.
     
  8. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Let's go backwards:

    1) if the drafted players aren't party to a CBA, it is illegal to price fix salaries. If they are getting a fixed salary, they had to individually agree to it.

    Both the federal government and FIFA say that.

    2) As far as the USWNT players, the past CBA made them all employees of the USSF on a tiered salary structure with fixed terms of employment. Any clubs they played for was as an on loan basis, in return for the players not having to go to residency camps. They did not negotiate individual terms, only how many players would be in each tier. It wasnt necessarily by ability or seniority, but it was a collective negotiation. As on-loan players, their USWNT salaries were reduced and the clubs picked up the difference. Exactly what that was was never revealed.

    But we do know that when the league folded, the players were told to find a place to play or they would be called into a permanent camp to train for the World Cup, much like Canada did.

    Most players went to WPS teams, which did not pay them ( or if they did, college players violated amateur status) the USWNT reverted to the original terms of the CBA, which had a fixed salary on 3-4 tiers.

    But when you mix the groups up, you can't have an employer acceding to a CBA with only a part of it, because then they treat some players as subcontractors and others as employees with no means to differentiate them. They all have the same job descriptions. What makes it muddy is that the payers association would be allowing a fixed salary for players who have no representation. It would get even more muddled with the 24K subsidy the USSF is compensating the Flash, as that could be interpreted as a violation of the CBA by the players association. They could see that as USWNT player money.

    And no players association in its right mind would allow a separate tier of players that could be played against them.

    There will be a combined CBA that players will vote on, there will be a FIFA approved negotiated contract for all players individually, but not both, or there will be no league.

    Rapinoe and Brooks - possibly Press, are staying in Europe until what could potentially be a very messy situation. The two are talking about improving their games, but I think Brooks's mention of the unsettled nature of the nwsl right now is more to the point.
     
    necron99 repped this.
  9. Scout22

    Scout22 New Member

    Nov 23, 2012
    Wouldn't be surprised if Nikki Washington get picked up by Parlow.
     
  10. necron99

    necron99 Member

    Oct 17, 2011
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    The key point is player's union or not, any player could bring a lawsuit against the league for collusion and anti-competitive practices. If the league and teams conspire to limit a players choices then it is collusion. This includes fixing salaries for draftees, or creating salary slots that all teams must use. The way against that is to have a CBA that allows for those rules. Now will this happen? I would say no. These are young players with little money. Unless a high paid law firm feels like making a name for themselves by coming in and leading a player to bring a case and working pro bono. Additionally there is a limited market for their skills and they don't want to end up losing their chance to play. Ask Curt Flood who broke MLB and made free agency truly possible, but ended up losing his career.
     
  11. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    Now that would be a great get if Nikki can stand the Turf. Is she fully healed?
     
  12. Focker

    Focker Member

    Oct 29, 2010
    I agree with Portland fans that Par should of taken Johnson.

    Picking Brooks was her saying that draft had no one left that could make impact for the team. She is basically hoping Brooks comes over. Nikki had a bad run in the first WPS. She was traded a lot. I hope she can settle in a little more. She is 5'3 flank midfielder and can play outside forward. She has been training with beast mode soccer in LA. Seems like she's healthy. She pretty much missed her whole senior year tearing her ACL after 6 games in 2009. She was part of the U20 world cup squad that won it all. Her best ability is taking players on.

    The defense so far scares hell out of me with what is in place right now. Tobin and Allie aren't exactly stellar defending midfielders. Amber Brooks is but they don't even really have her right now.
     
  13. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
  14. Focker

    Focker Member

    Oct 29, 2010
  15. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Does this mean Portland gets $24K from the Feds?
     
  16. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    U get to split the $0 Seattle gets for Rapinoe. At least Rapinoe has someone to talk to for 6 months.

    On a more significant note, has anybody watched the post draft interview with Parlow on the Timber site? She explained that because they picked 8th each time it was impossible to figure who would be there. I kinda got the impression she winged it. o_O

    As to Kendall Johnson, Aaran Lines mentioned her in an interview I read today. He said he (and I assume the other coaches) didnt find out she was in the draft until the night before. Amazing.
     
  17. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    Rapinoe signed overseas before the allocation. I thought that allocated players had agreed to play in the league. When Klingenberg begged off, WNY got money.

    As to what Cone said, it was
    No kidding.


    As to Kendall, Cone knew she was in the draft well before Friday.
     
  18. kernel_thai

    kernel_thai Member+

    Oct 24, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Well ud think Cone would have been sizing her up for a uniform. Especially if she is planning to move Williamson to Johnson natural position.

    How can u not think past the first round. This isnt the baseball draft. Worst case scenario she had to come up with 32 names and one of those was Brooks. There was one interesting thing to her drafting system. If she somehow got the order mixed up it didnt matter cause they all would have been there in any position.
     
  19. WPS_Movement

    WPS_Movement Member+

    Apr 9, 2008
    Here's exactly how Portland should have drafted:

    #8 pick (1st round): Kendall Johnson
    #16 pick (2nd round): Kat Williamson
    -(she most likely would have been there at #16 overall still, as only one team took a defender in the 2nd round (Chicago with Quon at #9), and the Red Stars still would have taken Quon over Williamson at #9, as Quon is local to Chicago)
    #24 pick (3rd round): Colleen Williams (play-making midfielder which they need now, no Heath)
    #32 pick (4th round): Amber Brooks (as the team's jackoff pick, since it's the last pick of the draft)

    If Kat Williamson is gone before the #16 pick, then just take her Florida teammate (Jo Dragotta) at #16. Dragotta is better at receiving/defending set pieces than Kat (just ask Gator fans), can score goals even, and is probably a more physically tougher player on the field, plus she's not as injury prone. A little different player than Kat, but you might actually get a more long-lasting (durable and healthy) player long-term.

    Kendall Johnson and Jo Dragotta give you flexibility.
    Johnson can play almost anywhere on defense or in the midfield.
    Dragotta can be a DM, or a defender pretty much anywhere.
    She wins balls, and prevents scoring chances.
    And if Amber Brooks comes on board as the DM, you can put Johnson in the midfield or on defense, and Dragotta on defense (or the reserve DM).

    This would have given Parlow more flexible options, to defend, and to lead to winning more balls, and counter attacks going the other way with ball advancement up to their world class strikers.

    Colleen Williams would have been a fantastic play-making midfielder on this team.
    It would have meant more scoring chances for Morgan and Sinclair even.
     
  20. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Does FIFA really consider the USWNT as their club team? I would assume federation contracts are separate from player contracts with a club team (e.g., USMNT players have some kind of agreement with USSF, but still play for club teams). Other feds must have agreements to pay their players, but that doesn't make them club teams, even if they are in residency.

    I would assume the NT players are going to be paid by their teams, but their salaries are supported by the Feds. That's a much cleaner employment model. They sign a contract with the team at the same level supported by the feds.
     
  21. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    FIFA looks at who has the first contract. You are right that in almost all (all?) situations with men, that was the club, and players were just released for international play.

    But with the USA women, the residency contract was effectively the club contract, since for large chunks of the history of women's soccer here there werent any proffessional clubs. The idea was to provide a living for players so they wouldn't go off and be bankers, lawyers, and mothers.

    The 2006 contract as it was presented to the press was that the contracts were held by the USSF and the level of payment to players depended on whether There was a league and they were on a club that paid salaries. Clubs that used USWNT players picked up part of their USWNT residency contract. When the WPS came in, the amount the league would pay was negotiated and the USSF reduced payments to players ( but never fully ended them)? So from a FIFA point of view, it would seem that players were on loan from the USSF to clubs. If you recall, before the Olympics and WWC, players were called into camps NOT during FIFA windows. That would not have been possible if the clubs held the primary contracts. There were a bunch of Sounders games that had no NAT players available.

    The whole arrangement was spelled out in the press releases from both the USSF and by Kristine Lilly as the representative of the players association.

    When the WPS ended, the contract reverted to the old system. Players were told to find a place to play or the USSF would form residency camps like Canada had. Most players went to the W league, which doesn't pay players beyond expenses.

    There is no contract at all now, as far as we know. The presumption is that the players are working under the old terms by consent, but the unsettled nature is probably part of the reason some players are bolting overseas for the next 6 months.

    The whole allocation system also supports that the USSF holds the primary contract. You can't allocate players you don't hold the contracts for. ( even then, the allocation has to be with a player's consent, according to FIFA)
     
  22. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wouldn't this be the same as MLS releasing players outside the FIFA windows? That is, it was a league decision, rather than called for by the players contract?

    It's all convoluted any way you slice it.
     
  23. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    I don't actually recall MLS players being released outside of windows. Who would they play? Do you have examples?

    There is a Mens players association as well. Perhaps there are provisions in that contract as well, but I don't recall any such wording in the Men's announcement.
     
  24. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Here is part of the contract announcement as presented in Soccer Times in 2006
    http://www.soccertimes.com/usteams/2006/women/jan04.htm

    So the USSF held player residency contracts whether or not there was a league. It would appear from the wording that theirs was the primary, as it the fact that they are allocating players.
     
  25. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Primarily age-level tournaments, such as the U23 CONCACAF Qualifying tournament held outside FIFA window.
     

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