Take the money?

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by martymarts, May 8, 2008.

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  1. PsychedelicCeltic

    PsychedelicCeltic New Member

    Dec 10, 2003
    San Francisco/London
    They aren't done yet. They aren't even anywhere near close to being done. Saying so is promo talk.

    I'm sure final payments haven't been collected yet, because of the construction schedule.
     
  2. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    Are you saying that as a fact or simply as a hunch? It should take about a year to build.
    This would be strange because typically buildings are built in phases, and the next phase is not built until the first phase is occupied. This way you are not stuck with invested money and unnecessary inventory in the case that you do not move the units as quickly as expected. The fact that the promo says that you could move into the final phase by August makes me think that people are already living in the othert phases. Maybe I am wrong becasue something just does not add up.
     
  3. Grateful Gooner

    Grateful Gooner New Member

    May 3, 2001
    Charm City
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There was no one living there when I walked past last month. There's still a lot of construction going on.
     
  4. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    Really. Okay, so maybe they are going to build them all before letting anyone move in. That is strange given that they would probably have to pay all the carrying costs, etc. in the interim, but I guess that is what they have decided to do. Thanks. So this means that starting in August or at least later this year, we should start seeing the some of that money rolling in. Maybe we will have more cash to throw around in 2009 or whenever the project is finally complete.
     
  5. martymarts

    martymarts Member

    Mar 11, 2003
    NYC
    This is the weirdest bit of repping I've ever seen. Your repping someone who is essentially saying that the fans don't matter a toss and it's alright for the team to be less than it potentially could be, because the directors are more interested in getting rich?

    Sorry mate but THE FANS ARE THE CLUB. We may not always know what is the best thing to do but those of us who are serious only want one thing and that is the best for Arsenal Football Club, and together, however little we contribute, we are collectively the ones paying for it (along with Rupert Murdoch)!

    We have another season without trophies and all the prudence in the world ain't gonna be worth sh1t if we all the potential is never turned into performance. A well run club that gets close but never wins trophies? Fark me were turning it Villa or Jasus... The Scum, oh sorry the Scum did win the Carling Cup didn't they!
     
  6. G dot Ozo

    G dot Ozo New Member

    Jul 18, 2005
    NJ
    Then go support Man United or Chelsea. Both of them are in the CL final and have won trophies trophies trophies recently. They also both have THREE QUARTERS OF A BILLION POUNDS in debt, each.

    I don't understand why you can't understand that we are undergoing a massive project right now with the new stadium. You're continuing this rubbish about the directors just getting rich, when none of them have even so much as drawn out a salary for a number of years. The only person you can accuse of being 'more interested in getting rich' is David Dein, who sold his shares off. IF the directors really were truly interested in making a quick profit, they'd have done so already, with the worth of their current holdings being a lot higher than when they acquired them. Get off it ffs, you're 100% wrong here.

    Arsenal Football Club is currently in debt. Again, Arsenal Football Club is currently in debt. I'm repeating it because you don't seem to understand that. We are currently servicing it in a financially responsible manner, but that doesn't mean we can go out and spend £100 million a summer like you want just yet. But it will come should the club continue on. However it will take time. People like you want an instant fix. Well, I'm sorry to tell you that there is no instant fix. The idea that a billionaire coming in will get rid of all the debt with one signature is absolute lunacy. Surely you understand that any prospective billionaire will be buying the club with a someone elses' money, a bank or other financial institution. This money will have to be repaid, at interest. Sure, we'll probably have an instant boost to buy those shiny £20-30 million players you want, but it will just be added onto the new debt that the billionaire has got us sucked into. And seeing what Man United and Chelsea's debts currently are, combined with the fact that we have a new stadium ON TOP of that, we'd be looking at debts of £1 billion. Not the way to run a football club by any stretch. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

    Building financial strength and stability takes time. Building a winning football team from the ground up takes time. 3 years and you're talking about potential never being turned into performance?? Ha! I've never had to 'suffer' longer than 7 years between us winning the championship, while my father has seen us go through TWO 18 year periods (the first one doesn't really count as he was a toddler for the beginning of it but you get my point). Maintain some perspective. Even if you started at the beginning of the Wenger era, you'd still have gone through a 3 year barren spell while he was rebuilding, and the result was one of the best sides the league has ever seen. The trophies WILL come, and along with it will come financial security and stability that will see us sustain success for long after this current generation of players has left us.
     
  7. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    Maybe we should fire the general contractor. I do not think that it should take three years to build a condo community . It should have taken one year..fifteen months tops. Does this happen to be the same group that built Wembley?
     
  8. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    Yep. Most owners will certainly will do it this way. Chelsea's owner is the only one I can think of that has done it differently. Its fantasy to think that someone would buy out the remaining shares of the club, pay off the debt for the stadium and spend money on new players with his/her own money. I cannot see that happening, and without this unlikely scenario playing out, there is very little reason to support a billionaire buyout.
     
  9. generals soccer

    Feb 7, 2006
    Toledo, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I read an article today that stated Roman's money that went into Chelsea has now been revealed as a no interest loan, not just pumping money in.
     
  10. canadagooner

    canadagooner Member

    Jul 31, 2004
    Toronto
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Nope, Sir Robert McAlpine, same lot that did Emirates. Probably would have saved time if they didn't have to preserve all that heritage stuff.
     
  11. surfcam

    surfcam Member

    Sep 8, 2004
    Corpus Christi, TX
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Stupid East Stand is causing Arsenal's slip in performance. And the West Stand isn't helping either!
     
  12. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    That's a pretty lame excuse. Once the plans were approved, it is all about execution. The 'heritage stuff' would have been taken into account and planned for upfront. By the way, what all was saved? When I look at the design from their link, I do not see that much. However I am not in London, so I may not know some of the stuff that is being done.
     
  13. surfcam

    surfcam Member

    Sep 8, 2004
    Corpus Christi, TX
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The entire facade of the East and West Stand had to remain in place. The new structures are built around it.
     
  14. surfcam

    surfcam Member

    Sep 8, 2004
    Corpus Christi, TX
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Plus it hasn't even been 2 years since they started. Work didn't start for awhile after the end of the 05-06 season.
     
  15. TheArgonaut

    TheArgonaut Member

    Feb 11, 2008
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Just out of curiosity and so that we can get a better visual representation of how far along the Highbury development is...does anyone have any pictures of what it looks like right now?
     
  16. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    You're right. I just did some digging, and construction started in July 2006. I guess they started selling the condos even before the construction workers broke ground (which is not really that unusual). I started counting from the date that they started selling the apartments because I assumed that these tasks would have been done in concert. This helps. Thanks.
     
  17. Lanesra

    Lanesra BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 13, 2003
    LONDON
    Highbury is still basically a shell, apart from the clock end that has finished flats on it.

    The flats at the new ground are very close to being finished, weeks away Id say. and of course the first phase flats were finished at the same time as the stadium.
     
  18. Lanesra

    Lanesra BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 13, 2003
    LONDON
    Yes they did, and they won one 10 years ago and in that time they've spent £120 million and finished 40? points behind us this season.puts them on a par with 'boro! I know where I'd rather be.
     
  19. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    I just found this information, and I think it helps with this discussion:

    http://www.islington.gov.uk/Environ...ArsenalStadium/HighburyScheme2005/default.asp

    The highlights to me are:
    1: The orginal plan was changed to account for additional 154 units as well as a few other amentities.
    2: The time frame given for the project was three and a half year, and the project will not be completed until the end of 2009.

    I do not understand why this is expected to take so long, but at least it does not seem to be due to the GC's incompetence. We are still a year and a half out before this will be done.....
    I wish the lease-up was done in phases. At least this we would at least have had some of this money for the next two seasons.
     
  20. surfcam

    surfcam Member

    Sep 8, 2004
    Corpus Christi, TX
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And don't forget the logistics of the location. There are two entire facades that had to be supported and built around. This creates logistic headaches. Also, Highbury is surrounded and immediately adjacent to houses on multiple sides. All of this greatly limits the amount of area that can be worked on at a time from demo to laying the foundation to building construction. Phasing is key. This isn't an open field with plenty of area for equipment and material staging.
     
  21. Miles Brasher

    Miles Brasher Member

    Sep 6, 2004
    Coventry,England
    Hurray, another off season, and another period of doom and gloom from Marty.

    My thoughts:

    Given the increase in property values in the Highbury area in the last few years, and the fact that although the property market in the UK is rubbish in a lot of places, at present it's pretty bouyant in North London, I don't think we need to worry about the flats being sold, and being sold for enough money.

    I have no idea about the time span for the build,although I'd agree with Lanesra about some of them being pretty close to completion and what I would say is that similar property developments seem to be taking a similar time.
    It did seem to take a quite a period to get the actual building underway, but I guess that was to do with taking Highbury (snff snff) down.

    We clearly need a replacement for Edelman. The contract situation needs to be sorted out for the future, we shouldn't have got into that situation with Flamini, but lets face it, last summer he was nearly going to Birmingham.....

    So then, players, Flamini has gone, cheerio, mate, (enjoy the Uefa Cup) we'll miss you, but we really ought to be able to find someone to replace him, I cannot believe that Wenger wont find someone to do a similar job. Cesc has absolutely no desire to go. Adebayor has no desire to go. Hleb looks more and more like hes staying. Nasri looks more and more like he's coming. So, not too much wrong there.

    We maybe could do with a new CB. I suspect Gallas might not be captain next season, so who knows how he'll react. Flamini needs to be replaced. Other than that, with Walcott starting to look good, Adebayor looking spectacular, RvP going to go thru the season without an injury (honest) Vela coming in, Bendtner improving, And Eduardo coming in nicely for the end of the season, we have really good attacking options.

    We ended up 4 points behind Utd. I know its all ifs and buts, but even after Eduardo's injury destroying a lot of the players around him, had we held that lead against them at Old Trafford, we would have won the league, thats the difference. Had we had a fair referee in the CL we could have been in the final tomorrow.

    At the beginning of the season, we were forecast by many to finish 5th behind Spurs. We didnt, we had a great season. Next season there's no reason why we couldn't do just a little bit better. Pretty much every player will have improved over the season.

    So I'm looking forward to next season, and the ones after that. We look financially sound for the short and medium term, and the player situation looks pretty good too....
     
  22. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I think for someone living in the US, it's difficult to comprehend 'London time' :)
     
  23. martymarts

    martymarts Member

    Mar 11, 2003
    NYC
    This is disrestful and disingenuous! I've been an Arsenal supporter since about 1970. Is this more or less than your father?

    The Chavs are not in debt

    I suspect that Mr Edelman is about to cash in his chips very shortly? Are Arsenal share prices massively higher than they were 10 years ago, or even 3 years ago? If the answer is yes then all those holding them are significantly better off, especially with the fiscally prudent steps being taken, to ensure absolutely minimum risk, to protect the capitalm value. Not all the directors are working without salary either!

    David Dein would probably not agree with your assessment. I am neither pro or anti Dein. I am curious why someone who was so deeply influental in our success is now so reviled? You could argue that his actions were what he thought to be in the best interest of the club. Had he kept his mouth shut and hung on, he would very likely have made even more money for his shares now?

    Thanks for the permission but I don't need it! The Q that I've asked and only one person has attempted to answer is; why not bring down the debt by issuing new shares? There's plenty of demand and using the funds generated to pay down the debt would have added all the cash generated to the bottom line. The only reasons that I can see for not doing this is control and using income to pay back debt maximises capital value and therefore share price!

    It's more than 3 years! The club has been cutting a very tight cloth since they got planning permission for AG. Some years we got away with it and some we didn't. The only reason that there is anything to discuss is because of the genius of AW.

    I am sure that this is something that we both ardently wish for and there are very good reasons to think you will be right. I admire your patience, but, still ask if there was another way, that wouldn't have caused such "growing pains"? You think no and I think maybe.

    In the end I don't care who runs Arsenal Football Club so long as they are financially savvy and see that AFC's long term success is in their interest too. In the short term we gave up the potential for greatness in the search for longer term more sustainable success. The further forward you project your hopes the more variables stand between you and your dreams. David Dein brought the greatest manager of his generation to Highbury and instead of racking up shelf loads of trophies he has worked with a miserly budget, achieved extraordinary things, but very likely given the best of himself to this "transition". Will we find his like again? Yes we have a beautiful stadium but it is Sir Red Nose who will retire as England's most successful boss! With a little bit more cash at AW's disposal he might well have to retire, to the bottom of his Scotch bottle, sans that honour?
     
  24. Miles Brasher

    Miles Brasher Member

    Sep 6, 2004
    Coventry,England
    Whilst you're right in that, Chelsea are in a pretty rare situation, in that they are one of the few clubs in all the leagues that have an actual benefactor as an owner, and a unique one as regards the amounts he coughs up. Could they be classed as in debt ? Well, its not a tactic i think they can continue indefinitely...


    I did suspect that Edelmans next move would be to cash in, but there seems to be little panic in the board about that, so who knows ? Maybe Kroenke is being lined up to buy them rather than the bloated one...

    David Dein may well have thought he was doing the best thing for the club when he wanted to share Wembley. He may well think that getting Usmanov to own the club is the best thing for the club, however, like the present board I happen to think he's extremely wrong. Personally I dont revile him.
    Who would buy the additional shares ? Usmanov. Great Idea

    I'd agree with this apart from one fact that Arsene Wenger has always and constantly refused to spend money in the same way other managers have. He is the opposite to Kevin Keegan and a financial directors wet dream. Had we not gone down the route we did, we could well have more success, but we'd probably have a worrying future to look forward to.
     
  25. surfcam

    surfcam Member

    Sep 8, 2004
    Corpus Christi, TX
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh yes they are. Abromovich has only lent the club the money in no interest loans. The club currently owes RA 578m quid. That is quite a sum. If he decides to cash in, I doubt the two Premiership trophies will cover it. Chelsea would then be stuggling to stay out of administration IMO.
     

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