The Israelis side can certainly test my "reaction" theory. My take on this is that it is indeed the reaction from the previous Israelis' Gaza killing. (the suicide bombers were from Gaza) Israelis right now have two choices: 1) retaliate, which would cause more death of Palestinians; 2) realize that this is the blowback from their previous killing, and hold the fire. If they pick the first option, (I expect they would given their past behaviors) violence would escalate again. And another vicious cycle begins. If they hold the fire, talk to the Palestinians, and remove the settlements and the wall in Westbank and Gaza, (the real reason for violence) there is a hope for peace. The choice is in Israelis' side.
Either way to the eyes of the world public we would be known as the losers for doing both. If we chose option 2, then more attacks would follow. My greatest apology, if for the past week and half or two you closed your ears and didn't realize that Ariel Sharon and Ahmad Quieri were going to have a summit and talks about progress and cessation, but instead your buds from the Hamas and Al Aksa Martyrs brigade wanted to show there 'reaction' by sending two 17 year olds to blow themselves up. The whole summit got set back and while the militants cheer on, Israel WILL retaliate cause if we don't and we be foolish like you and your option 2, than we will see more attacks later on. The Palestinian factions don't have reaction nor time limit, they have cycle. They continue to attack, cause thats what there there for. Israel will take them out like we did in july when in a spate of 70 minutes Hamas lost 8 of there Senior Members cause they messed with us. When Air Attacks occured, the only thing mighty militants did in the Gaza strip that time (who dress in black and cover there cowardly face) was sit and wet there pants :Note: Retaliation has already begun 10-15 Missile have struck gaza city..power outage in the north part of Gaza strip and Israeli army is in the area... Run for your life...Yassin!!
Generally, Israelis have tried both the strike back option as well as the "hold your fire" option. In both cases, terrorists would still try to kill Israelis. Israel pulled out of Lebanon, complying with UN resolutions to the letter. Despite that, Hezbollah has gotten MORE powerful and Israelis still face terror from them. They've tried negotiation and "holding fire" with the Palestinians as well. It didn't work. They'll have to work something out, obviously. Even Sharon realizes now they have to leave Gaza. Remarkably, Kofi Annan said that this could be DANGEROUS if not done in negotiations with the PNA. Apparently, international law now not only requires that the Israelis leave the territories, but that they do so in conjunction with a ceremony where Kofi Annan can shake Yasser Arafat's hand and talk about the victory of the "diplomatic process." So what do you think the Syrians should do, anyway?
But you are talking about something way far back. When did Israel pull out of Lebanon? At least for the last 10 years, Israelis have not tried out my "hold the fire" option. Everything they have done is tic-for-tac. Shame.
Israel pulled out of Lebanon on May 2000. Very Recently. Probably monthly issues occur with Hezbollah who fires artillery into Israel and rejects any UN maps. They are still at war with israel after pull out cause they accuse israel of still not giving lebanon the "Sheeba Farms". While the UN says it is Syria's land, Hezbollah denies and says it is Lebanons. Either way, Hezbollah is runned by Syria and syria just doesn't care. But JPhurts had a really good point. The Terrorist do get stronger and more deadlier when Israel leaves or does not do anything. Look at the time when Arafat came into office in 1994. The minute he walked in and had his autonomy state created...the terrorirst emerged. Coming to think of it, the Hamas/Islamic jihad were simply a 'reaction' (as quoted by verybdog) of the Oslo Accord. Back in the Uprising, which was from 1987-1994, there wasn't many organized attacks and the casualtiy was around 500-600 people on both sides....perhaps even less...
To be fair, Kappa. Israel probably is better off out of Lebanon. And Israel will probably be better out if Sharon pulls out of Gaza. But ultimately, the security issues and considerations in Lebanon are different than the ones in the WB and Gaza, so I don't think Israel can just pull out and be done. But in the absence of any Palestinian partner, they'll have to do a pullout combined with other things (the wall, occassional raids on terror hideouts, etc).
Does logic matter? What happens when we assume the Palestinians want peace. If Quriea is supposed to meet with Sharon, does sending in suicide bombers help the peace process?
I just think that no matter what, you need to pull out of Gaza with a sort of agreement. Right now, what goes on in Gaza is alot of Terror activities. Much of the Mortars that are fired into Israeli cities like Sderot and the Negev Desert come from Gaza and they don't stop. If we disengange the terror problem will get worse. The problem that we had before will get even bigger. Hamas will try to take over and at first have a sort of a civil outbrake between the police and the militants. And when everyone had enough, then the aim will be at Israel. Israel needs now to take out senior leaders of Hamas and to subdue it. The attack, like all other attacks bring back the negotiation a step down...
It appears to me that Hamas is not interested in peace. Sharon doesn't care about peace either. And Hamas probably has nothing to do with the PA and Arafat. That's why they always do the suicide bombing before Israeli-Palestine peace talk. The biggest mistake US and Israel has made is ignoring Arafat.
Not so you think. On top of Hamas claiming responibility, Al Aska/Fatah also claimed responsibility. Both Fatah and Al Aksa Martyrs Brigade are closely affiliated with Yasser Arafats PLO and Israel, EU and the U.S have proof that Arafat funded operations early in the intifhada until the April 2002 "Defensive Shield" where israel found accounting books that showed where all the money was funelled. Sharon does want peace. Infact, he is more sincere than anyone to have peace. But when you declare peace and your enemy shows no mercy for peace, than you have a problem. You are right! Hamas does not want peace, but what are u going to do if that Hamas group still is willing to send your 'reaction' filled suicide bombers on Missions not only to target innocent lives but also to destroy any chance of peace. The biggest mistake was not killing him. The man is 2 faced. It sad that you don't hear him talk in his mother tongue and see what he really says when he talks to a crowd of thousands about israel, jihad and martydom. Than you will see who Yasir Arafar really is. Check the article below: http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=2022
You know, attitude is everything. When Israelis act like they are gods, kill this, kill that, it can really raise fair-minded people's eyebrows. Arafat is not just a person. There's a race, a government and a state behind him. You have to understand that. He is a head of state, or future state. When Israelis talk like that, impression is that they don't really respect the leader of a people, which is very offensive.
When a militant comes with Kalishnikov and hand grenades to attack primarily Israeli civilians, than israel does not have a choice but to defend. I am sorry that you think that Israel kills this and that, when all israel is doing is defending itself. Im sure, if you needed to defend something or someone, than you wouldn't arrest the purpotrator. Especially when he is armed and ready to die with you. If Israel really had an attitude that you perceived than it will probably wipe out the whole threat posed by the militants and disregard any form of human life/suffering in that case. But Israel is very strict and open to diplomacy rahter to action... Arafat is or was a leader. He is no god or no pope that you perceive him to be. He is a leader that failed and a leader that time and time again has perceived and manipulated the leaders and his own people. Leaders do fail and Arafat is one of them. There is predecessors to Arafat and Arafat has show his might when dealing with real issues. He doesn't care for the Palestinains, he doesn't care for a state. He cares for a fight. For a jihad till the end. And at the start line he will always say "let the best man win". If Arafat was willing to have peace, he would have done some pretty miracoulous things in Summer 2000 @ Camp David. Instead, he walked out of Camp David. Didn't even make a counter offer. Just walked out, got back to Ramallah and celebrated with 2000 or so of his supporters how he beat the Americans and Israelis in there own game. Later that summer, the jordanians warned him, the EU warned him, the egyptians warned him that if he won't get back to the table, there would be violence. Arafat ignored. When violence erupted..Not when Sharon went to the temple mount, but in August, when Rioting erupted in Nablus and Beit Jala...Arafat stood back and watched. Even in the 'offical date' arafat still acted hawkish for calm. Each time Israel pulled back, it gotten more violence. In the begining, a lynch occured in Ramallah of 2 israeli reserve soliders. Israel truly saw the face of its 'peace partner'
Ehud Barak made incredible concessions at the negotiating table to Yasser Arafat, pretty much all Arafat wanted, and he turned it down. Why? Arab leaders are not interested in peaceful co-existence with Israel, but are interested only in the annihilation of Israel. Israel's land takes up a tenth of one percent of all the land in the middle east, but yet there is no room for a Palestinian homeland in any of the Arab countries. There has never, in the entire recorded history of the world, been a separate nation named Palestine. Ever. It is a farce. Israel has a recorded history that goes back at least 6,000 years. As others pointed out, Israel for the most part tries to avoid civilian casualties. They call ahead to let the PA know when they're going to blow up a specific building. The PA bribes an unaware 10 year old into killing himself. You tell me the difference.
That's a mystery to me too. I heard that although the offer was generous, but the offer wasn't vital geographical to Palestine as a stand alone state. What came over Arafat's head? He needs to write a book on that. Could it possible that he was too scary to made a decision like that? Or was he not authorized to make a decision like that? Why didn't he negotiate if the offer wasn't fair? Does he regret today?
You said that Palestinians are a race. There not a race. There a nationality. And coming to think of it.....Not much of nationality in that case...
The offer was valid to make a Palestinian state. The only thing needed was a signing. The deal included all possible obstacles like water, electricity, economy and roads. Arafat, knew that the palestinain problem still remains... They don't have israel yet. So he walked out. He didn't bother to send another proposal cause then again, what would he say on it.."uhhh, can i have all of israel plz, and with jerusalem as its capital?" Arafat really doesn't regret anything. He just makes up stories as to why he is the victim and how the "Bhauntus" State was the vision of the U.S and Israel... well....he is in a whole somewhere in his ramallah compound looking up at the ceiling... Man..He could have gotten a noble peace prize probably in 2002?
West Bank: Palestinian Arab and other 83%, Jewish 17%; Gaza Strip: Palestinian Arab and other 99.4%, Jewish 0.6%
Meanwhile, the killing of Kurds continues, with virtually no public outcry. http://www.albawaba.com/news/index.php3?sid=272829&lang=e&dir=news
Are swedish people a race too? How about the Canadian Race? I think you got confused in the difference between race, culture and nationality...