Switzerland vs Spain / Belgium vs Italy

Jorginho was pushed, then he tripped forward and fell. If there is disruptive contact, it doesn't qualify as a dive. For me, a real dive is when the player entirely makes it up. If there is disruptive contact and the player exaggerates a little to get the ref's attention, it's a bit disgraceful but much less so than a real dive (and Jorginho is a no-nonsense guy, a serious and composed worker; he is not known for diving). My point is, if you call a tiny push on Doku inside the box a penalty, then you need to call a tiny push on Jorginho inside the box, a penalty, especially because the push on Jorginho was more explicit and more disruptive to his movement than Doku's who basically plunged forwards due to his own momentum. Doku was pushed by a defender running alongside him. Jorginho was pushed from behind. That is worse.

Again, that Doku incident CAN be technically called a penalty and a few refs (not most refs) will call it in those circumstances. Again, I have no problem with calling it a penalty. I do have a problem with calling that a penalty, and then denying to Italy the same consideration in Jorginho's incident. That's a double standard. Some refs allow players some leeway and try to refrain from stopping the game too much and interfering too much. That's a refereeing style. Those refs, then, will be a bit lenient and will NEITHER call the Doku incident a Penalty, NOR Jorginho's. Other refs are very strict and interpret the rule as any tiny and soft foul inside the box is a penalty, and will call BOTH incidents a penalty.

Calling one and not calling the other one is what is absurd, since it confers an advantage to one of the contenders and influences the outcome of the match. A ref should not artificially influence the outcome; should be neutral and consistent and whatever he calls for a team, he must call it the same way when it happens to the other team.

 

And also, Mancini has been adapting well to the opponent's strategy and has been making the right subs, bringing in impact players who make a difference when the other team is starting to get tired. Mancini is a very good manager. The way he was able to neutralize some excellent Belgian players yesterday demonstrates it.

Yes, this team has a lot of spirit. That's an attacking Italy with a midfield that does orchestrate the game but faster than what Pirlo used to do. The defense has been good as always. It's very difficult to score on Italy. And our offense has always found a man able to score, instead of relying on a center forward or some star player. I've been saying, this is a team that is better than the sum of its parts, and it shows. 32 undefeated matches...

Can Spain will? Sure. But at this time I place us as favorites to be finalists.

 

You're criticizing Belgium's play while in fact they started their tournement with their top players like KdB and Hazard not fit/injured and against Potugal KdB got additionally molested by that criminal Pepe, that he played with damaged ligaments against Italy.
So these two had all the difficulties against Belgium with these issues. What would have been their chances against a top fit team?

 

See that's the thing, the majority of people are just now seeing it but for us Italians we've been seeing this for years all the way back to the U days. Go back a few years on the Italy forums and you'll see us talking about how this upcoming generation is stout and very impressive.

Nothing against you guys whatsoever, i don't expect non-fans to be involved and interested in following our youth program but i just wanted to chime in because we've kinda known for a while.

Italy still has a major striker problem, hopefully the likes of Kean/Cutrone/Raspadori will evolve into solid reliable forwards.

 

I have seen some of the Youth tournaments but let's face it , Youth teams do not always translate to the Senior side.
We did see the great qualifying but even that is not a great measuring stick as to how Italy would perform on this stage.
We all did not know how Italy would bounce back after the 2018 cycle . Heck even ESPN analyst Del Piero was a bit apprehensive going into the tournament because he did not like the idea of being favorites.

Italy is showing the World what they can do as favorites and playing mostly positive football.

 

I felt so bad for Switzerland last night. Sommer was immense.

 

You are definite favorites but we tend to play better against attacking opponents. I find this a really interesting game as from what I see, Italy won't play the bunker and counter game that most of our opponents have done.

 

We definitely won't sit back too much, but I do think we might play a little more defensively against you guys that usual because you guys really hold possession a lot. I think it will mostly be you guys controlling possession with us pressing a lot around the midfield and trying to win the battles there to look for the counterattacks. Maybe a little like Switzerland but a little more midfield pressing and a little less defensive.

 

In no particular order, I would put Brazil, England, Spain, Italy, France in my top 5 and I think you can argue putting Argentina in there as well.

 

Portugal wasn't fit either. Bruno Fernandes for example played the most minutes/games more than any other player in the last year going into this tournament. Plus they Cancelo at the beginning of the tournament to covid who is huge for Portugal on attacking from the flank.

 

With respect to the Italy and Belgium game, it's important to remember that both teams reacted to how they played in the last 16.

Italy's midfield were physically dominated by Austria. So Italy responded by playing faster on the ball so teams couldn't get near their players to make physical challenges.

Belgium played Portugal and grew more and more defensive as the game wore on due to injuries to key players. That mentality of absorbing pressure continued into the next game against Italy. Belgium fell too much into their defensive shell.

If Italy had played Belgium in the last 16 instead, the game would have been very different. For one, there would have been no Chiellini. Second, Belgium would have had Eden Hazard. It's very likely Belgium would have dictated the game more with Eden on the pitch, while Lukaku would have been more imposing without Chiellini to challenge him.

 

Hehe, I said, "can Spain will?" which makes no sense. I meant "Can Spain win?" So my Freudian slip is a bit concerning... like I feel that Spain *will* win.

Anyway, yes, you guys can perfectly win.

 

That's what I like about Mancini. He adapts, changes strategies, and makes good choices. He is not a passive manager. He is a very active one who studies the opponents and when we have a big problem, he does correct it with changed tactics and/or impact subs.

Sorry but that's a lot of "ifs." For me the biggest "if" was, if the ref hadn't called a very questionable soft penalty against Italy, or had been consistent and had called a penalty against Belgium as well when they did even worse in terms of an explicit foul inside the box, then most of that wouldn't have mattered anyway.

For me, regardless of any calculation of "ifs" I believe that the fact is that currently Italy is a deeper and better team than Belgium, and fully deserved the win.

 

I wouldn't say Italy are deeper and better. Both teams are comparable for quality and depth. Not many of us knew Doku before this game, yet he gave Italy more problems than anyone else in the Belgium eleven. That Italy beat Belgium showed that what this Italy team is made of. Italy can play excellent football and win against the best of them. If there were doubts about Italy before, this game finally removed them.

I think this game with Belgium was the real final because the winner is probably going to win the Euros. Italy for me are now the favorites.

 

England could very well win the Euros, but Italy, Spain, and Denmark are all teams capable of winning it too. It's really anyone guess at this stage, but the odds strongly favor Italy and England I think.

Italy haven't conceded any easy goals. The Austria goal barely got in and was partly the result of Locatelli's lax marking. The only other goal came against Belgium from a penalty that was less than assured of being called.

Both Italy and England have kept it tight at the back, they have been clinical up front (unlike Spain and Germany), but in the midfield it's very obvious which team will control the game. England is setup to absorb pressure, Italy to apply it.