Switzerland vs Spain / Belgium vs Italy

Discussion in 'Euro 2020 (2021)' started by Kamtedrejt, Jul 2, 2021.

  1. Mean Machine

    Mean Machine Member+

    May 23, 2018
    They were really missing Kompany. He was a very key defender. Honestly we had a few other great chances that we failed to convert and should've. Immobile had 2 great chances (one in the first half right before Insigne scored, and another one from Chiesa's pass but he took a terrible first touch). Also Insigne's assist to Spinnazola was put just outside the goal. I feel like there were 1-2 others that I'm forgetting. Belgium could've easily scored 2 with their chances, but we could've easily scored like another 3 with our chances as well. Could've been like 5-3 for us, but overall, I feel we were definitely the better team for most of the game. Much better tactically and really stretched Belgium all over the place and out of position.
     
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  2. nick p

    nick p Member+

    Jul 11, 2009
    Baltimore Maryland
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Italy into semifinals what an moment for Italy they didn't play 2018 World Cup but now their fortunes as changed by Mancini
     
  3. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    Belgium looked poor and overrated to me. You can't just drift back into your defensive third, play passive defense and let your opponent knock the ball around your box--you are asking for trouble, and trouble is what Belgium got in the first half with their soft defense. You have to pressure the ball and the opponent; Belgium largely did not do that but rather sat way back and then tried to counter. They are a good counter team, and created some chances, but they are not good enough in the back to be the "the best team in the world." You need more of the ball, IMO. They lost the match when Lukaku missed that cross to him late in the match: He was wide open in front of the net and couldn't get his head on it.
     
  4. Kamtedrejt

    Kamtedrejt Member+

    Internazionale Milano
    Albania
    Mar 14, 2017
    Hamburg
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Albania
    It is what it is. This Belgian generation will very probably end up trophyless. It was their ultimate chance. They might get another one in 2022 but competition next year will be more fierce than this year.
    After they couldn't deliver when I trusted them to do so I will never pick them again anytime soon.
     
  5. Kamtedrejt

    Kamtedrejt Member+

    Internazionale Milano
    Albania
    Mar 14, 2017
    Hamburg
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Albania
    My struggles to predict an EURO winner right continue.
    I got the last two World Cup winners correct. For the EUROs I was wrong in 2016 and also this year.
    50% success rate still isn't bad.
     
  6. SF19

    SF19 Member+

    Jun 8, 2013
    Very well deserved win by Italy and surely they're the favorites of these Euros now. Cynical when they needed it, but beautiful play for most of the game.

    Italy today were sort of like the Spain of 2008 to 2012. Veratti and Jorginho look like the closest thing around anymore to Iniesta and Xavi. They allowed Italy to play with a lot of pace on the ball. Very different from Pirlo who kept the pace much slower and deliberated. The Austrian midfield would never have gotten close enough to Italy's midfielders to put in physical and cynical challenges if Italy had managed to play the ball as quickly as they did today.

    I thought the biggest difference maker, beyond how well the midfield played, was Chiellini. He very nearly paved the way for Italy to open the score if not for the slight offside. He made it close to impossible for Lukaku to impose Belgium's game on Italy. Lukaku is the only reference point in attack and if he can't hold the ball up, then Belgium will struggle more to affect the game. Having him in game I think also gave Bonucci and Spinazzola a little more freedom too, which helped when Italy had the ball.

    Belgium could counter dangerously at times, but couldn't hold the ball. Belgium invested too many numbers into their defense and that cost them the midfield battle. That allowed Italy's midfield to be even more dominant on the ball and push Belgium deep into their end which made things easier for Italy.

    The other problem with the Belgian defense was too many of them were looking at other players to step up. On Insigne's goal too many of them were sitting back when someone needed to step up and meet the threat more, while on Barella's goal a lot of players were in the mix and simply didn't get a foot in. Belgium don't have someone like Chiellini who would have stepped into those moments and taken command, which I think again highlights how important Chiellini was in making the difference between the two teams.
     
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  7. DutchFanatic

    DutchFanatic Member

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Dec 23, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Bummed for you Belgians. You guys have a likeable team and I would have liked to see you guys win. Unfortunately for whatever reason your team was never really able to reach the spectacular heights that you would expect from such great players. It's sad we never got to see this Belgian team really excel in any tournament. Fair win to Italy who have a lot of character, something a lot of countries (like my own) severely lack.

    With that being said... there is one Belgian player I am not sad for. Anything snarky to say now, Courtois?
     
  8. Mean Machine

    Mean Machine Member+

    May 23, 2018
    The problem is Belgium have no midfield. Witsel, seriously? He’s not gonna do anything against a midfield of Veratti, Jorginho, and Barella.

    It was a mistake not to include Nainggolan. Nainggolan might be passed his prime but he’s aggressive and physical and might’ve made a difference.
     
  9. Mean Machine

    Mean Machine Member+

    May 23, 2018
    What kind of a difference do you think it would’ve made if Nainggolan and Kompany were playing? I feel that every Belgian talks about De Bruyne, Hazard, and Lukaku but Nainggolan and Kompany I feel were very key and well under-noticed.
     
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  10. Kamtedrejt

    Kamtedrejt Member+

    Internazionale Milano
    Albania
    Mar 14, 2017
    Hamburg
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Albania
    Belgium got overrun in midfield. Italy were all the time at numercial majority in midfield. Belgium had most players busy defending. They basically gave up the midfield battle sitting just deep and waiting for counters. Lukaku wasn't prolific as a target man today. Chiellini kept him quite. Other problem was other Belgian players were to slow to join the attack. Not a surprise if your main focus is at defending.
    These tactics would only work if Belgium would have scored first. Once they were down it was evident that they would find no joy playing like that.
     
  11. Kamtedrejt

    Kamtedrejt Member+

    Internazionale Milano
    Albania
    Mar 14, 2017
    Hamburg
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Albania
    #61 Kamtedrejt, Jul 2, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2021
    Witsel who just returned from injury couldn't match up the intensity of the Italian midfield. Tielemans is still young and can improve. I had high hopes in him after his FA Cup win with Leicester. But to be honest he wasn't as good at this EUROs as I thought he'd be.

    Nainggolan is past it. Plays for Cagliari. He wouldn't have changed anything on the result.
    Neither would Hazard have changed anything. Belgium was just as a team inferior to Italy today.
     
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  12. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    AC Milan
    Italy
    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    The exhilaration for our win is a bit brought down by Spinazzola's horrific injury. He ruptured his Achilles tendon. Otherwise I'm happy and I believe that we really deserved the victory. I thought that the penalty was soft. Many refs wouldn't call that, a penalty. A few would. Technically it is one. I don't really mind it being called. What I do mind is the inconsistency. The one inflicted on Jorginho was actually more explicit and wasn't even reviewed by VAR! If you call that penalty on Doku, then you must call that other one on Jorginho!

    Anyway, I was mad a Lukaku for mocking Donnarumma and shushing him after he scored. Lukaku, get this. We had the best answer for you. Sure, you scored (out of a soft penalty) but we still beat you. You are going home, and we are going to London.

    Immobile was useless. Other than him, everybody else played at least decently, and at times brilliantly.

    It's interesting to see that many people thought that Chiellini coming out of injury was a problematic choice when facing Lukaku... but actually Chiellini was one of the best players on the pitch, today.

    Again, we're a team. Next man up. When someone like Immobile falters, someone like Barella gets it done. And Insigne finally scored one of his signature curling shots.

    Spain on the other hand did not deserve the win. They scored out of sheer luck (own goal) and couldn't finish a 10-men Switzerland (the same team we demolished 3-0). They prevailed through the lottery of penalty shootout series.

    I feel confident against Spain. I was more afraid of Belgium, and we got that step solved.

    Now, the people who kept saying that we hadn't been tested and hadn't played the big boys, should grow a renewed respect for Italy. Yep, we're title contenders... which is what I've been saying all along. Will we win it all? Obviously, I don't know. Gotta play the games, first. But certainly we are contenders...

    So, we beat 3-0 the team that ousted France and took Spain to penalties, and we dispatched the #1 ranked team in the world.

    Yep. That qualifies as being challenged... and we responded to the challenges with wins. I feel very good about this Italian team. The dream continues. Too bad we won't have Spinazzola, one of our best players this Euro, but again, it's a team effort and I'm sure the next man will be up. Forza Azzurri!
     
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  13. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Congratulations to Italy and Italian fans for an impressive showing. They were clearly the better side and deserved this victory.
     
  14. rougou

    rougou Member+

    Dec 7, 2003
    Hyogo
    Club:
    AS Roma
    I actually thought Jorginho dove but I'm not sure if we're talking about the same incident. The reason I don't like the Doku PK is because if it was the other way around and Doku shrugged off the defender and scored, they would almost never call a foul for that. I see it all the time. Looked to me as if the ref thought he got tripped and then has no choice to give it because there was technically a push.
     
  15. Kamtedrejt

    Kamtedrejt Member+

    Internazionale Milano
    Albania
    Mar 14, 2017
    Hamburg
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Albania
    My hesitation to pick Italy as tournament winner was mostly due to their lack of experience at the highest level and lack of games against top opposition. They played only the Dutch in the Nations League. I admit though that they outclassed the Dutch away. I should have taken more notice of that and adjust my opinion on them.
    I felt it would be too risky to pick Italy to go all the way for aforementioned reasons.
    In hindsight experience didn't play any major role yesterday. Surprisingly to me. As I said Italy won this game with a good tactical preparation. Belgium's strenghs were basically nullified. Mancini beat Martinez yesterday.
    That being say it's not clear if they will go all the way but they went at least one step further than the team I picked to win.
     
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  16. Mean Machine

    Mean Machine Member+

    May 23, 2018
    If I am being honest, I do not even look at the Dutch as a top team. They really aren't, especially with Frank De Boer as their coach. Switzerland, Spain, France, Italy, Belgium, Croatia, Sweden, England, Denmark, Czech Republic, Germany, Portugal, and possibly even Wales and Poland are better. Maybe they are on par with Wales.

    The reason the Dutch even did well against Austria was because they were fortunate for an Austrian player to make a mistake and give them e penalty early on in the game. No penalty, and it would've been a different game. Against Ukraine, it was very close, but I don't think Ukraine is all that good either, especially without Konoplyanka.

    I still think Ukraine beating Sweden was a huge upset, and technically 7/10 times, Sweden would win that game.
     
  17. Kamtedrejt

    Kamtedrejt Member+

    Internazionale Milano
    Albania
    Mar 14, 2017
    Hamburg
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Albania
    Belgium couldn't play on the front foot in both games where they faced top oppositions. I mean sit deep and play on the counter can be one approach. But you need to show also that you can dictate the game and create something on your own. This is something Belgium couldn't really do neither against Portugal neither against Italy. I mean they always prefered to play a more counter-attacking style as we saw against Brazil but at least in 2018 I thought they were more able to play on the attack.
     
  18. Mean Machine

    Mean Machine Member+

    May 23, 2018
    They struggled against Denmark as well and mainly scored those 2 goals by counters. In 2018, I felty they attacked France pretty well. I felt that France was more of the counterattacking team in that fixture.
     
  19. Kamtedrejt

    Kamtedrejt Member+

    Internazionale Milano
    Albania
    Mar 14, 2017
    Hamburg
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Albania
    #69 Kamtedrejt, Jul 3, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
    Me neither. The Dutch are historically a powerhouse. But the change from Koeman to De Boer made the team regressing. So it was quite difficult for me to gauge Italy's level. Had they played in a same Nations League group with one of France, England, Belgium, Portugal, Spain or even Germany it could have served me much better as a reference. I don't count the first Nations League season when they played Portugal. That is outdated. 3 years past by.
    At the end of the day Italy have made also a big step forwards in the build up to this tournament. They are one of the very few powerhouses who seemed to have use the preparation effectively. Their displayed level is even clearly better than what they showed in the Nations League or in qualfying. This is always something you can't really predict. How many ladders could a team climb up with a very good preparation. Germany tended for long time to fare much better in major tournaments just because of that. They managed to build some excellent chemistry in the two weeks ahead of a tournament.
    Belgium didn't really climbed any ladders. They played in this tournament like they played in the Nations whereas Italy climbed in intensity and chemistry upfront. Their movements upfront it's just a joy to watch. Had they an all-out striker they would be basically unbeatable in this tournament.
     
  20. Mean Machine

    Mean Machine Member+

    May 23, 2018
    For Sure. Also, I don't think the Nations league is really a good place to judge teams by completely. The Nations League is equivalent to like FA Cup, Copa Del Rey, or Coppa Italia of National Teams. Many big teams do not prioritize that and would not always field their best starting 11. I never looked too much into the Nations League while predicting matches, and most big teams are not very aggressive in that anyway.

    Euro Qualifying and World Cup Qualifying performances is where I look at a lot more when predicting teams. Sadly, most big teams do not play each other in those because they are seeded but by watching the games, you can often get a good feeling of how teams perform.
     
  21. Kamtedrejt

    Kamtedrejt Member+

    Internazionale Milano
    Albania
    Mar 14, 2017
    Hamburg
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Albania
    I remember how Belgium thrashed Russia away 4-1 in qualfying in fall 2019. With an Hazard who was back then at a much better spot.

    Italy had their moments in qualfying too. Putting nine goals past Armenia or winning 3-0 in Bosnia where they wrapped up the game very early. It's not coming of completely nowhere....
     
  22. Kamtedrejt

    Kamtedrejt Member+

    Internazionale Milano
    Albania
    Mar 14, 2017
    Hamburg
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Albania
    Albeit I said Belgium - Italy would be the early final I think Spain are a side who can much better match up with Italy than Belgium. I make for now Italy like 55:45 favourites. But on their day Spain can take this. Italy will for once suffer for large stretches in a game. This is another opportunity for Italy to show if they are versatile enough to win this tournament.
     
  23. NewLaw83

    NewLaw83 Member+

    Jun 3, 2015
    Boston, MA, USA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    I said it before the tournament that Belgium was overrated. They should not be the #1 FIFA ranked team in the world. They are very good team but not in the top 5 in my honest opinion.
     
  24. Kamtedrejt

    Kamtedrejt Member+

    Internazionale Milano
    Albania
    Mar 14, 2017
    Hamburg
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Albania
    Out of curiosity who would be your top 5?
     
  25. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    There is something about Italy. You could see it from the very start of the tournament they just have the look of a finalist. Sort of reminiscent to the 2006 squad.

    I have said it multiple times but I am rooting for this team. They are playing aesthetically pretty football but with the grit they have always shown to get the job done. The match against Spain is going to be a treat.
     
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