Supporters Shield

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by jamesf24, Oct 20, 2004.

  1. jamesf24

    jamesf24 New Member

    Apr 16, 2000
    Brighton, MI
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why was this given to C-bus? We had same points, same goal diff, and more total wins than them?

    Sorry if this is a duplicate thread, I didnt see one on the first page.

  2. NattyBo

    NattyBo Member+

    Apr 30, 2004
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    They scored more goals than you did, I beileve. AndyMead will correct this if Im wrong.
  3. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is correct, they had to go to the second tie breaker, cause we were tied on points, then we were also tied on goal differential, it went to the next tie breaker, goals for, which they won on the difference of 2 goals, we had scored 38 goals this season C-bus scored 40
  4. kcscsupporter

    kcscsupporter Member+

    Apr 17, 2002
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    not out of bitterness for not winning the shield, but i think the first tiebreaker should be wins. i mean, isn't that the ultimate goal anyway - to win? columbus had more than twice as many ties as us, right? having that many ties proves you're good enough to not lose to the other team, but having the most wins proves that you're good enough to BEAT the other teams. it almost seems like a reward for settling for a draw.
  5. rallen

    rallen New Member

    Jun 5, 2003
    Shawnee, Ks
    It does seem to be a shame that we had more wins, but we lost the shield, and now it's time to look towards the ultimate prize - The championship Cup.

    GO WIZARDS!!!!!!
  6. rudeboy

    rudeboy Member

    Jul 5, 2001
    Kansas City
    Seriously, how can they(the league) claim the Shield goes to the team with the best overall season record when they give ti to C-bus? We had more wins, and fewer. Granted they scored two more goals then us, but seriously, we won more games. A win is better then a tie, that is why it is awarded 3 points rather then 1 point. So with that in mind, if two teams ends up with the same point totals at the end of the year, one with more wins and the other with more ties, doesn't the one with more wins win?
  7. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because the league made the rules before the season started and Columbus won according to those rules. KC had more wins, but didn't have enough wins to win the Shield.
  8. Mad_Bishop

    Mad_Bishop Member

    Oct 11, 2000
    Columbia, MO
    from today's star
    Taken with a slight grain of salt, as Pete Grathoff doen't come off well as a soccer savy reporter (wed. before the season finale he said the only game of importance was Fire-Revs. Huh?)
  9. prk166

    prk166 BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 8, 2000
    Med City
    I like that idea of having the 1st tie breaker be number of wins.
  10. KCWiz

    KCWiz New Member

    May 8, 2003
    Manhattan, Kansas
    Why is GF the next tiebreaker? We had less GA then they did. It all evens out. Wins should be next because the Wiz had the balls to go for the win when Cbus would just sit on the ball after tying on the road.
  11. kckicker23

    kckicker23 Member

    Jun 10, 2003
    At this point it's really just "breaking the tie to break the tie," as someone aptly put it on BigSoccer over the weekend. You're right they just as easily could have made GA the tiebreaker, and we'd have the shield. But then Crew fans would say, "Hey, why does GA have to be the tie-breaker? We had more goals than they did, so GF should break the tie!", and we'd go back and forth on this forever. The point is, under the current system, Columbus won it. But the tie-breaker doesn't change the fact that we had the same number of points that they did, and it doesn't change the fact that we had a great season. There will always be some subjectivity to breaking a tie, and that's just how it goes sometimes. I don't think it's really affecting the players much at all - they want the Cup now. No sense arguing about the shield, their (and our) focus should be on the Cup.

    And if there must be a debate, debate about allowing 2 goals to New England at home in early June in the final minutes to lose the game. Debate about giving up a header to Tyrone Marshall in stoppage time against the Galaxy that erased our 1-0 advantage and stuck us with a tie. Those are the things over which we had control, not the silly tie-breaking procedures.
  12. PezJunkie

    PezJunkie Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Independence, MO
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Kansas City lost 4 more games than Columbus... But I'm sure glad we didn't have all those TIES like Columbus. Wow, that sure would suck.
  13. MikeLastort2

    MikeLastort2 Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Takoma Park, MD
    The rules to determine the winnner of the Supporters' Shield was setup by the Shield's creator, Kansas City Wizards supporter Sam Pieron. Don't like it?

    Maybe you guys could start your own trophy. Call it the "Whining Supporters' Shield."
  14. Van Buren

    Van Buren New Member

    Sep 26, 2002
    Kansas City, Mo
    this is the most irrelevant gripe ever. we won the cup, be proud. Now go win the bigger cup. Wiz got the No.1 seed. that's way more important.

    I've never given a crap about the supporters shield. It's just another way of saying No.1 seed. If there were no playoffs, regular season champ would be THE champ.
  15. fly_over_dallas

    fly_over_dallas New Member

    Jul 6, 2004
    Here the question that will give us someone to gripe about. Who said or typed the the word treble before we lost the shield? ;)
  16. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [Devil's advocate]
    Why should the Supporters Shield go to a team with more losses?
    [/Devil's advocate]

    When Sam Pierron set up the Supporters Shield several years ago, he went with the league's tiebreaking system, precisely to avoid discussions like this one, which are mostly political. Back in those days, the shootout was still around and there was a great argument as to whether or not shootouts should count towards the Supporters Shield. It was decided to go with the exact same standings methods that the league uses for two reasons. First, those standings methods are what the players are fighting towards. Second, the Supporters Shield stays above any sort of movements that might be the flavor of the week amongst the fans -- like the movement to get rid of the shootout in those days, or to get rid of overtime in the last few years.

    And in my opinion, it was a smart decision. But frankly, it's a shame that Pete Grathoff couldn't call the guy who started the Supporters Shield, a guy who actually lives in the area, and get his take.
  17. hartley

    hartley Member

    I agree. But then, why would Grathoff make the call? He doesn't really care about soccer. He's just doing his job. He just got stuck doing the MLS coverage. So, he just gets it done and slides in some of his own anti-soccer bias to boot.
  18. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Sporting Kansas City
    Actually Pete Grathof is one of the few that truly does care about soccer. In fact the KC Star wanted him to stop writing about it a few years ago. Pete was an early contributor to the Emerald City Gazette.

    I don't see why anyone is whining, Columbus earned it fair and square.

    The reason the SS follows MLS rules is because that is what is the playing motivation of the players and coaches is predicated on.

    If the SS was based on total goals, but MLS standings were based on fewest caution points - which do you think is going to affect how the players play?
  19. hartley

    hartley Member


    If Pete is pro soccer, then why did he put in that snide remark a couple of weeks ago -- something about how soccer fans in America make it hard for other American sports fans to get into soccer by using terms like pitch, training, etc.?

    I sent him an email pointing out that most of the world calls practice training anyway. And go to anyplace but the U.S. and those terms are used for soccer and other sports. Americans in general are such snobs that we think the rest of the world should live like us, talk like us, prefer our sports, etc.

    Pete seems to be a good writer. But he sounds like a baseball fan writing about soccer to me. Maybe he should use the world's preferred terms when writing about soccer.


    The Crew won the Shield. They won it by the rules. Hey, we had our chances. Turn one tie into a victory. Or turn one loss into a tie. Then we would be holding the Shield. Good job Columbus. Now let's see if you can get the Cup. I doubt it.
  20. szazzy

    szazzy Member

    Apr 18, 2004
    Kansas City, MO
    I'd like to see a league based on most caution points. Zotinca would certainly be MVP.

    ps - All soccer journalists at the Star get lifetime passes for being the only reliable form of soccer press in this city at the moment.
  21. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Sporting Kansas City
    Because soccer fans in the U.S. have no sense of humor?

    Last time I checked, Pete's words were published in the heartland of the United States - not the United Kingdom. His audience understands the words "practice." I'm not sure the word "training" is used in Italy, Spain, or Germany.

    I prefer American writers to use American terms when writing for an American audience.

    And if Columbus had turned any one of 13 ties into a win, we wouldn't be having this talk.
  22. KCFutbol

    KCFutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 14, 2001
    Overland Park, KS
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    C'mon people, the Crew Crew won the Shield fair and square. Congratulations to them. Now Wizards, go out and win MLS Cup. A double is great accomplishment.
  23. scarshins

    scarshins Member

    Jun 13, 2000
    Actually, since a win gets 3 points and a draw 1, the idea of getting a reward for playing to win is taken care of right there- in the points standings.
  24. Wizardscharter

    Wizardscharter New Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    Blue Springs, MO
    And with that idea comes the fact that under the 2-1-0 point system CLB wins going away. Bottom line is they had less losses.

    The obverse of the arguement has been stated, more wins. Regardless, KC had the more impressive regular season as their starting offense missed, what, roughly 90 man Meola. All of them being out for the playoffs as well, etc.
  25. prk166

    prk166 BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 8, 2000
    Med City


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