My God! USA lost 4-0! U.S. men beaten 4-0 by Morocco and eliminated from the Olympic soccer tournament -
Always backpassing, always backpedaling, always recoiling, always avoiding challenges, always second to the ball, always giving up the second ball, always reluctant to take guys on one v one, always choking on the chance, etc. etc. We lose before we even take the field. No courage, no drive, no execution. The program is a soccer passenger…drifting along content just to show up. Lame.
Going to give my overall reaction in here (instead of the other thread) because I'll address this game AND the big picture. Briefly on this game, it was awful. As bad as you can draw it up. Players didn't show up, bad tactics, and a ref that was the most decisive person of the game by a mile. What can you do with bad refereeing? It's just sport. We'll never find out if it's something worse than incompetence, and humans tend to also be bad at judging sports in real time without replays. As for the coaching in this game, I should've said it at the time, but I was scared: The false 9 approach was never going to work. You had to start McGuire. There's nothing overly special about any of the three attackers. All three are droppable. You simply needed a target who could win you some headers, use some strength, and draw some fouls a little better. Also provide a real box threat that CB's needed to respect. Mitrovic got fooled by the Guinea game (not that McGuire did anything positive in this tournament). With the players, I think the reality is that most of these guys showed why when you actually come up against a half-good opponent (and thats what I'd say Morocco are), they just don't have either the talent AND/or consistency to deliver. This is why these are the backup U-23's (and three over-age guys that weren't at Copa America). As for the overall tournament and cycle, I don't think you can say it was a failure. It was genuinely decent throughout. Saved the worst game for last, and the overall performances and results were just too up and down the last few months of a cycle (you want to try to peak at the end of a cycle ideally). Without any of the real top age-eligibles we played nice football during the cycle and looked like a quality team that could impose our game on others. Some players stood out (Tessmann for sure, McGlynn, Tolkin, Booth, Paredes, Aaronson, Busio, Cremaschi all had their games and moments). Yet, it still could've been better. There's nothing special about Morocco, and we kind of made them look like that today (when they didn't even play well). We just didn't show up to a very winnable game (and it's not like it was a definite loss coming next game if we somehow did win). Disappointing. The lack of overall participation in the Olympics from some of the better over age targets and age eligibles is disappointing. We got none of our top over age choices and none of our best age-eligibles (aside from maybe Tessmann) played for this team. Only reason too that Tessmann played for this team is because he wasn't yet in a top league (funny how that works). I think there will be a bunch of 01's-04's that aren't yet senior team fixtures that are going to have a large role with the senior team in the future, but probably that'll be more guys not on this roster (Brady, Neal, Gomez, Luna, Gutierrez, Pukstas, Sullivan, Wolff, Cowell, TKD, Morris, Bassett, Craig, etc). than were (Tessmann, Cremaschi, Wiley, Slonina, Paredes, McGlynn Tolkin, Yow, Busio). I definitely would've liked to see Mitrovic have some trust in the younger guys. Seeing Harriel have a shocker today was entirely predictable that he'd hit his level at a certain point. Seeing Schulte let in two slow rollers in four games while only being competent enough outside of that is entirely predictable. Two of the oldest players on the team. Tolkin is on the older side for the cycle. McGuire. Yow. Busio. Tessmann. Dietz. Booth. Obviously some of these guys contributed positively, but we only picked 6 of 18 players who are technically born in the latter half of the cycle. Maybe that's a normal distribution (probably not, although likely not egregious), but most of your better older guys are on the senior team, so make up for that by skewing a little young with higher potential guys than essentially the true back up 01's and 02's. Mitrovic didn't. Of course, it must also be said that Mihailovic was a disaster all tournament. The set pieces are nice, but they aren't worth it if you are going to make it a 10 v. 11 game. He's absolutely useless in a U-23 game from the run of play. He has zero role with the USMNT going forward. We don't need the set pieces that bad. Robinson showed his faults, and I don't know that he helped himself, although maybe didn't hurt himself catastrophically like Mihailovic did. Zimmerman probably helped himself a little. He was one of the better players. He's still a 30+ year old CB in MLS, so there's not a ton of appeal to his profile, but he probably could still play a role with the senior team. Onto 2026. That's a tournament we should absolutely believe we have a shot to win at home, but we simply have to have more of the players we'd want for this team available. I don't think in totality you can say a ton went wrong for this cycle. The bottom line is just that we weren't working with a ton, and we couldn't make miracles out of what this group was. QF's was probably the fair outcome and not a bad overall end result either.
Posted this in the Morocco thread but I think it's more appropriate for the Olympic roster discussion thread: How much of this is "raw candor" and how much of this is an over 30 center back desperately trying to hold on at the edge of the USMNT pool.... Walker Zimmerman believes the biggest thing his younger Olympic teammates will take away is appreciation for representing the USA -- something he said has begun to slip in the US men's player pool. Raw candor from the veteran in the mixed zone. pic.twitter.com/4jJUivnG9n— Sam Borden (@SamBorden) August 2, 2024 Also if the best we've got is "appreciation for representing the USA" that feels almost like a participation trophy? Literally everyone at the Olympics is representing their country, even the no-hopers, I don't think it's American exceptionalism to say that our goals are a little more lofty than that!
I think it's a dumbshit thing to say publicly even if you mean it. I swear, first step for USSF is not a new coach; it's media training. That said, isn't a pretty commonly held position that the level of focus and intensity of the senior team is lacking right now? Hell, read one way, it certainly aligns with the idea that they've gotten complacent in having a spot. Everyone gives different reasons for it, and I suspect for the players a lot of that is internal to what they think -- it's super important to Walker so he assumes it must not be for other people, etc. when the reasons are probably much more personal and layered. I will say that Walker clearly seems to be more old school -- Country over Club. He didn't grow up with the same culture the younger guys do, who have more dreams of the Champions League, I'd bet, than the World Cup. I bet he's somewhat right. I mean, if nothing else, in a different era, Pepi is DEMANDING to go to the Olympics. So I imagine some of it is somewhat right, but I don't think this team doesn't want to win. But I also think it actually DID mean a lot more to the older guys on an average basis.
He never said that's all that matters & results don't. That's a big part of results. And you can't argue he didn't put his $ where his mouth was. So I don't get the problem here.
Zimmerman wasn't going to make the Copa America roster no matter what? How is he putting his $ where his mouth is more than anyone else? More than the 8 U-23s who went to the Copa America, an objectively bigger and more important tournament, over the Olympics? Pretty sure that's still considered representing the US isn't it? Maybe even representing the US where it matters more. Would we even have wanted any of the non-U23 guys from Copa America to choose the Olympics instead? That makes no sense. And certainly Walker isn't doing so more than Miles Robinson who is the ONLY one who went to both tournaments this summer. So then why is Walker getting this praise for being old school country over club, over Miles? Cincy are actually playing for multiple trophies this season as one of the elite teams in MLS, and currently imploding defensively without Miles. Nashville are crap and playing for NOTHING this season, that's true currently without Walker as it was earlier with Walker. Edit: I'm not saying Zimmerman didn't have a great tournament, but I'm not sure why he gets any more credit for representing the US than anyone else from either tournament this summer.
Because he's talking about being dialed in every minute you're out there & earning your spot, which you can't take away from him this tourney or any other he's played the last 5 yrs, unlike a plethora of guys whose effort seems to wane. The senior team has become soft & entitled. I don't know how that could be disputed. He's probably especially miffed because he got better dealt for anointed ones seemingly, & it contributed to the Copa embarrassment.
I think he didn’t mean it to help his standing. I think it’s an honest and fair criticism. Past US teams had less talent and fought and scrapped for every point they could get. They had a chip on their shoulder and punched above their weight. The current team thinks because they play for PSV or Juve that they can do selfish things in important games, get themselves sent off for it, cost the team the game, and then it’s all good because they’re young and were willing to apologize and say they’ll learn from it. There have also been numerous high profile situations in recent years where duals ditch the USA in what comes off as a game of musical chairs that isn’t purely about viewing the USA as your country that you want to represent regardless (the view some definitely do take and not all do).
All I took from Ream and Zimmerman making these comments is that they were admitting their USMNT careers are now over.
He’s exactly right. Walker Zimmerman will get roasted by the clowns and wannabes over this statement, but you can see the difference in player mentality from a mile away. This is exactly what I was referring to as a culture problem, one that deserves the name Low-T USMNT: The Participation Trophy Generation. Where the only things that matter are the distractions. The reason Zimmerman stood out as a higher quality player for most of this tournament is because he has a different mentality.
The reason Zimmerman stood out, which I don’t know if I agree he stood out…but if he did it’s because he’s 31 years old with 43 senior caps and World Cup Finals experience playing largely against very young players. Harriel got stuck in, Aaronson was always up for a fight. Tessman didn’t take any crap. Griffin Yow was a live wire. McGuire threw his body around. We physically dominated Guinea and New Zealand, who aren’t physically weak teams. Paredes dove all over the place but he was always locked in and battling. Get out of here with this crap or name names.
Where is all the advertising for MLS now? We just got run off the field by the only two decent teams we played. All but one player was a current or former MLS players. All of the top performers were kids who got their ass out of MLS as quick as possible. Two overage MLS lifers were crap at CB and the other overage player continues his streak of never excelling anywhere outside MLS and we consistently improved when he was finally subbed off.
It is almost as if the player has to be actually good at soccer to be a good leader. Zimmerman was lucky to be in the national team program and says a lot about the federation that he was chosen over and over and over. A veteran just underperformed against kids and then criticizes the younger players? It sounds like his leadership skills came from Berhalter.
And once again I'll reiterate that I'm not questioning Zimmerman's performance at the Olympics. I think pretty much everyone would agree he played well and was clearly the best overage player. But what are we even talking about, who are we accusing of not caring enough about representing the US? And are we really basing that on performance? So if player X has as a bad game it's because he doesn't love Americuh enough?
I still don't get the whining. THAT stems from prejudice. Pretty sure he's not talking about the Olympic team but the culture w/ the seniors that he should have been part of but wasn't allowed. We had Weah flippantly getting a red card because in the back of his mind he knew he'd be right back in the starting lineup the next eligible game. Same went for Dest. McKennie and Musah appeared to play in spurts. Adams didn't stop, after begging to be included in spite of his injury. Richards really under-performed, for whatever reason. Kept playing, so knew he could. CCV sucked in friendlies, then got a chance to suck again during the tournament. Yada, yada... Maybe Zimm's sticking up for his partner Miles too (in addition to himself) & speaking against the lack of merit-based system where certain players aren't rewarded for good nat'l team play, punished for bad, because of their club prestige. It's possibly a shot at fans who think like this as well. It's a disease w/ our fan base, & they need to take their medicine for it.
So by that logic Zidane didn't really care about representing France right, "flippantly getting a red card"? Did Messi not care about representing Argentina when he had no goals at the 2010 World Cup (surely that's "under-performed" for Messi) but then he did care later, especially in 2014 and 2022? Boy we sure are lucky to have Walker Zimmerman instead of those unpatriotic scumbags
You're making a lot of brainwashed radical extremist political activist assumptions about what was said.
This is nuts. Zimmerman has ton tons of interviews and hasn't said a thing, but when asked after they are eliminated from the Olympics, he lashes out. If you actually believe that then I'd think you wouldn't want him in the program. Merit based system? If we had a merit based system, Zimmerman would have been discarded long before he got a chance in WCQ to his "try hard" might be useful vs concacaf teams. The idea the USMNT hasn't been fair to MLS players and claiming someone like CCV got tons of opportunities. You might be the biggest MLS homer i have come across. The amount of minutes that have gone to MLS players since 2017 and in the end they all failed. I would love to have a conversation with any of those MLS lifers who have over 25 caps. I ain't taking any medicine and don't have any advice for you because you seem hopeless.
I would not agree he played well. Our coaches want to play of the back and neither CB can do it. There were plenty of basic defensive errors. Why does he never close the ball on this goal? He had support from the beginning and ended up marking useless while allowing the attacker to patiently pick out his pass with zero pressure in the box. This Morocco goal comes off a U.S. goal kick that GK hits long…and it is completely uncontested resulting in a simple loss of possession that comes right back down the U.S. throat. pic.twitter.com/Ta9XY8HdVs— Alexi Lalas (@AlexiLalas) August 2, 2024
I can’t imagine touting catastrophe waitress CCV over Zimmerman, the guy who single handedly made me lose all respect for the SPL. That’s cool, though.
I don't believe that the problem was lack of commitment. The problem was the players simply weren't good enough to play with confidence when faced with the pressure of superior opponents, and so their touch, their passing, and their thinking all let them down.