I heard about this on NPR yesterday, and immediately thought of this forum: "Chloe and a dozen other campers begin discussing God, the planets and humanity's place in the universe. But at Camp Inquiry, which has a secular humanist focus, God takes a back seat to reason. Of course, the camp schedules familiar camp activities like hiking, swimming, and arts and crafts for kids ages 7 to 16; but the thrust of the camp is to teach children to think skeptically about everything, including religion and the supernatural." The Buffalo News: "The camp’s mission: Help young people “confront the challenges of living a nontheistic [or] secular lifestyle in a world dominated by religious belief and pseudoscience.”" Official website. Thoughts?
So if you are religious, you're a proponent of psuedoscientific theories like a 6000 year old earth and Jesus rode dinosaurs to Temple? I see little more than evangelical athiesm tilting at the windmill of creationist fundies. They deserve each other.
Well two thoughts: The uniforms are Biblical. You do remember Joseph's coat of many colors? The camp's mission statement seems to be misleading. I do not think that the world is dominated by any sort of religion. Certain countries might be but the west is certainly not. and two questions: Who is the arbitrator of what is religious belief and pseudoscience? Since this person or persons make these monumental decisions for the rest of us who will help us deal with the challenge of living in his world?
"You want this, don't you? Take your weapon! Strike me down with all of your hatred, and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!" Or something like that.
But it is a serious answer as well. No one is the arbitrator, which means everyone is the arbitrator.
I just don't get the insecurity of some atheists. Must be something about living in America probably (although it's by no means limited to the US). I don't see much difference between sending your kids to "atheist summer camp" or sunday school or whatever, it's all about seeking confirmation of one's believes from other people. Not that there is anything wrong with it, but still. Sometimes you get the impression it's a freaking cult (atheist churches, skeptic organizations and all that stuff).
I only glanced over it, as I was somewhat familiar with the topic before. Maybe I shouldn't have used the term "atheist summer camp" - but as this was the focus of this thread anyway I just went this. But I think that's pretty much what those skeptical organizations (like the CFI which organizes those camps) are about: like minded people hang arround and confirm each other in their believes (and generally, I'm pretty sure that kids attending that camp will be pretty like-minded, including the odd religious kid). And I didn't wan't to sound too negative actually, although after re-reading my post I think I managed to do so again . It's just my knee-jerk reaction to organizations like the CFI or extreme atheists - I don't see the appeal of turning those positions into an ideology.
If the kids are encouraged to question atheism as much as they are encouraged to question other religious beliefs, then it doesn't show insecurity at all. The problem with some religious camps is that get kids to question everybody else, often by making sweeping generalizations about others, but they discourage kids (and indeed adults too) from questioning their own set of beliefs and ideas. That to me shows insecurity. People shouldn't be afraid to question their own faith and beliefs.
Wouldn't the intellectual position of the instructor play a large part? Can a Christian teach kids to question Christianity? Can an atheist teach kids to question his beliefs? Given that the atheist position is sometimes ( I said sometimes, so don't get your panties in a wad) based on a feeling of intellectual superiorty, how does one teach others to question the superior thought?
That's also a matter of methods. Given that the camp is held by an organization that wants to promote a scientific, secular world view and the pretty much anyone atracted by such a camp will lean into this direction already, I wouldn't expect too many kids to question their world view because of such a view. Of course I don't know exactly what's done there and I don't really want to comment too much on that specific camp - I'm sure they don't want to recruit little atheists, and I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I'd think the same about a religious camp, also that's not my business either, and as long as kids are taught to be tolerant there's no problem with any. The problem I have with scientific skepticism is that many skeptics seem to think they are the good guys ("science, ******** yeah!!!!"), and being more interested in proving whatever they consider to be the other side to be wrong.
Sure. They can do it by creating an environment in which the children realize that their provocative questions are encouraged and not ridiculed of ignored by the instructors. Of course the instructor will teach his views, there's nothing wrong with that. But, I think it also helps if when it comes to religion or methaphysics a teacher makes statements like, 'I believe...', 'our church believes'..., 'our group believes...', rather than 'This is the way it is'. For example, an eight year old kid asks, 'Who created God'? An atheist instructor can reply, 'We, (our group), believe that nobody created God, that there is no god'. A Christian instructor can reply, 'We, (our church), believe that nobody created God, that he has always existed.
I suppose a camp like this would be good if the kids were talked through the thaught process rather than just having the final conclusion drilled into them. For me, that's why I became an atheist, I didn'' start off like that and then build my argument around the conclusion. I thought it through and came to the conclusion. As long as kids are exposed to that and open to that I don't mind.
You make a good argument in theory but you have far more faith in humankind then I do. If you doubt me, watch Dan Rather's eye brows when he reads a story he disagrees with or listen to some of the claptrap that was thrown at me in college. Bias is something that is difficult to overcome within one's self because we often don't realize that we are biasd. That is a weakness of all true belivers, be they theist or atheist. If you doubt me look at all the good intentions of education professionals who live in their insulated world and come up with such things as new math, bilingual eduction & self esteem programs. Now, if the camp were to teach kids the ability to think for themselves, then it would be a most relevant endeavor. If that were so, I suspect the kids would come out with many of the same beliefs that they went in with, just stronger.
Exactly. I presume many people send their kids to camp because they want to instill their own beliefs to their kids. But it is best that the instructors explain why they arrived at their beliefs, and let the children think it through, rather than just say, 'this is how it is'.