Sudafed Now Controlled?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by MasterShake29, Apr 17, 2006.

  1. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, I believe people generally act in their self-interest. Is our economic system not proof?

    If you believe that people all have death wishes and it's the government preventing mass suicide and all, well then we'll just have to disagree on that point.
     
  2. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I haven't commented on whether I think any particular harmful substances should be banned. I'm just pointing out the fault in your reasoning. People will do things that are harmful to them, and we will all pay a price for it.
     
  3. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    True, but it's a big jump from smoking cigarettes to doing meth (to get back to the topic). Even if the latter were legal, I doubt many people would do it. Lots of people have vices, as long as it doesn't get out of control I'm not too worried.

    I have faith in people. I'm willing to have them make decisions for themselves, and I believe the vast majority won't do all that badly.
     
  4. bojendyk

    bojendyk New Member

    Jan 4, 2002
    South Loop, Chicago
    Bad example. Is crippling debt in anyone's best self-interest? Oddly, people--and not just dumb people--still amass crippling debt.
     
  5. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's true. So what can you do about it? Treat it like you drugs and make crippling debt illegal?
     
  6. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Matt, you've just been faced with two solid examples of ways that people cause harm to themselves willingly and voluntarily. What makes you think that these examples are exceptional? Can you provide counter-examples in which people, free from legal constraints on their behavior, behave in their own self interest and eschew that which is against their self-interest? You have asserted that the population at large will behave that way, but you haven't provided anything other than a "gut feeling" to support that assertion.
     
  7. bojendyk

    bojendyk New Member

    Jan 4, 2002
    South Loop, Chicago
    Not to mention that every single person who has ever lived can list decisions they've made in their past that worked against their self-interest.
     
  8. John Galt

    John Galt Member

    Aug 30, 2001
    Atlanta
    I believe Matt continuing to post his theories in this forum is against his self-interest. :D
     
  9. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Obviously people do go against their self-interest sometimes. But for the most part, people don't.

    Having money is in my self-interest. Thus, I don't quit my job when I have no other main source of income. I don't do this because the government forces me, I do it of my own free will. I also eat daily and avoid shooting myself and overdosing on cocaine.

    Do I have vices? Of course, everyone does. Do I do stupid stuff sometimes? Of course, everyone does.

    Do I need the government to tell me how to live my life? No, not really. I think I know better than George W. Bush what's best for me. You all can agree with that, right?
     
  10. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll give this one last try.
    Your analogies are poor. Working for income, eating daily and failing to shoot oneself don't compare to drug use nor to accumulating excessive debt, because none of the things you listed has a positive side. They also have very direct, immediate negative consequences which keep most people from doing them (e.g. When you don't work you can't pay the bills, and have no food, television, phone, place to live, etc. When you don't eat you get very hungry. When you shoot yourself it is painful and usually deadly). The types of laws we're talking about prevent behaviors which are much more appealing in the short term and have less immediate, although often equally disastrous, consequences. So there is a difference.
     
  11. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do you have any idea how many people have far more debt than they can handle? Look up stats on debt in American and bankruptcy claims. Then move on to the number of smokers in the US, how many people die from cigarette-related complications. People do not act in their best interest at all times, and that's fine...until their actions affect others. The bitch of it is that a majority of actions that are harmful to an idividual can also prove harmful to others.
    I'm sure exactly what your point is here.
    Do your vices endanger or threaten to adversely affect the lives of others?
    Again, we all [most of us] agree that excessive government intervention into everyday lives is a bad thing, but it's not a black and white issue.
     
  12. John Galt

    John Galt Member

    Aug 30, 2001
    Atlanta
    Why do Objectivist Clubs have rules?

    Why do Objectivists have clubs?
     
  13. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let's try a different tack.

    Do you believe that people should go to jail or be fined if they sell "too much" (as defined by George W. Bush and the Congress) Sudafed to one person in a single month, or fail to properly record such sales?

    Do you believe people should be forced to provide ID to purchase Sudafed?

    Is this a legitimate use of tax dollars?
     
  14. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually it is "as defined by the FDA and DEA." The amount that can be purchased in a month is relative to the amount that could realistically be consumed for a legitimate purpose by a single person. And I believe that a person should face punishment of some kind for knowingly exceeding this predetermined number. If it's a minor miscalculation, a fine should work. If it's gross negligence or complete disreguard for the law, then I'm not against jail time.
    It's that or stick a RFID chip up their ass to track the purchase of the drug that way.
    Better than some current uses.
     
  15. chaski

    chaski Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 20, 2000
    Itchycoo Park
    Club:
    Lisburn Distillery FC
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    That's the idea behind the Balanced Budget amendment.
     
  16. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Right, but that applies to the government, not an individual.

    I'm all for restricting government, not so much on restricting individuals.
     
  17. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So, Matt, people should be able to purchase prescription drugs in any quantities they desire, without providing ID nor a prescription from a licensed physician?
     
  18. chad

    chad Member+

    Jun 24, 1999
    chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thank goodness another transparent concept, self-interest, has entered the discussion!

    Matt, it is in your self-interest to have someone tell you how to act, for without knowledge you cannot have liberty.

    Zoinks!
     
  19. MasterShake29

    MasterShake29 Member+

    Oct 28, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would support that yes.

    Now personally, I would ask a physician in most circumstances before taking prescription strength drugs, but I believe that should be my choice.

    Now, if a store refused to sell to me without a prescription, that would be that store's right.
     
  20. bojendyk

    bojendyk New Member

    Jan 4, 2002
    South Loop, Chicago
    This is why I'm glad you'll never have a say in such matters.

    Antiobiotic resistance is on the verge of becoming a global problem because lay people attempt to cure themselves with antibiotics or don't take the complete recommended regimen. The consequences are staggering, and in countries that can't afford more-expensive alternative antibiotics (if they even exist for that particular sickness), the consquences are lethal. These substances need to be strictly controlled.

    Your desire to take a handful of penicillin pills any time you feel under the weather doesn't trump the public's right to not be infected with penicillin-resistant organisms.
     
  21. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    If you admit its not, why do you keep trying to say that we have rights because of it? It can no more grant you rights than the Magna Carta can.
     
  22. Demosthenes

    Demosthenes Member+

    May 12, 2003
    Berkeley, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Your worldview is so naively sanguine it's really quite cute.
     
  23. Chewmylegoff

    Chewmylegoff Member

    Jan 26, 2004
    London
    feeding antibiotics to farm animals to make them grow quicker isn't exactly helping the situation either.

    on other news, has anyone posting in this thread ever taken sudafed?
     
  24. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I'm on it right now.

    (well, not "Sudafed" the brand, but the active ingrediant that everyone is refering to as "sudafed)
     
  25. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can't- it counteracts by BP medication.
     

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