Hmm OK. Fair enough. I think a trident is quite clearly discernible in the big 1991-92 matches. True, Casiraghi did score a little bit more but goals per game was higher, with Lazio scoring more goals (in 1995-96 also conceding more) and he took penalties when Signori didn't play (who scored a biblical amount of penalties). edit: on youtube there's 1991-92 Juventus vs Milan and it are two strikers, three forwards, yeah. It's right that in the match they got eliminated Barcelona only played with one foreigner (Stoichkov), with the three others not used. However, Romario did play in this competition without scoring or assisting. I know you think I'm unfairly biased, but for me this is another 'plus' for Ronaldo even if he didn't play in the 2nd leg semis and the final - next to what he did in Europe. I also find the argument regarding the 1992 CSKA Moscow match a poor one (that happened in those days, even to 1980s Liverpool or AC Milan; and remember that Barcelona in a deteriorated state - with Madrid rejects Hagi plus Prosinecki forced onto them - still squeezed to the quarter final and semi final in Europe after Romario left). As I said, it is good to look into this, individual effect on results, a bit wider (in my humble opinion, when looked at useful statistics and more detailed into events the difference is quite big). But nevermind. I think it's wise to back off a bit now as I feel I've shared my info/thoughts.
I don't disagree with the CdR view. But for sake of thoroughness why not look into their respective La Liga pre-season performances? those tournaments should also be considered for the sake of conciseness, wouldn't it?
No. It is not a relevant comparison. Beginning with Ronaldo playing at the 1996 Olympics. After conclusion he was part of a Nike Brazil tour and played a couple of friendlies with the national team. Therefore he had only two pre-season substitute appearances for Barcelona. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_at_the_1996_Summer_Olympics_–_Men's_tournament
I agree that R9 has only a couple of pre-season matches there to show for. But still! If you are going to analyse a player performance with a club in a particular season, than you must look at all matches, at all tournaments. If you don't then that would be cherry picking or to say the least "too arbitrary". we cannot bin Romario's 14 goals in 8 matches in 93/94 pre-seasons cause that would be not only unfair, but also more importantly, be an incomplete analysis of Romario's overall performance in his 93/94 season. Remember, the initial argument was the respective players peak vs peak season, hence, all records should be included. If you want to know how each of these players did during their passing at Barca, you must include all their games. To cut it short, if you want to rate a players performance then you should include all of it. If you do it, you better do it right!
edit: Puck, you don't have to compare Romario's pre-season vs Ronaldo's pre-season per se, if the latter player has only two matches going for and you think that would be unfair to him. You don't have to if you don't want to. In the same way we cannot compare Romario's UCL games vs Ronaldo's UEFA games cause these are totally different championships, arguably two different championships on different levels and quality, aren't they? This is why I and @leadleader emphasised on having comparisons made between respective La Liga vs La Liga for consistency. Let Oranges be Oranges and Apples be Apples. But if you opt to throw in Supercup, CdR, R9's UEFA and Romario UCL, then you should also include Romario's pre-season tournaments which are many! This for the sake of consistency. Anything short of this will yield an incomplete and distorted image of said player based on cherry picked games. I reiterate, with disregard for R9, you should still include Romario's pre-season into his overall performance for that single year as part of an analysis to show how well he did in his first season 93/94, cause his pre-season performance also are part of his overall performance in 93/94. This has got nothing to do with R9, and it is not to make any comparison between them, but simply to have a better concise picture of how well Romario did. @PuckVanHeel
Why is it called pre-season? And not as part of the season? It's not really comparable friendlies of earlier decades (and even then economics occasionally dictated a truly friendly/fair atmosphere; as sometimes with Pelé playing). If I have to chose between mid-90s pre-season efforts or exploits at Copa del Rey and in Europe.. Yes, it's an indication of Romario his level but at the same time you talked about "their respective pre-season performance." But OK, here are those pre-season games involving Romario. FEYENOORD-BARCELONA 4-2 SC HEERENVEEN-BARCELONA 5-4 (1 goal Romario) AJAX AMSTERDAM-BARCELONA 2-4 (2 goals Romario) OVIEDO-BARCELONA 0-1 AC MILAN-BARCELONA 3-0 DEPORTIVO-BARCELONA 0-1 SAO PAULO-BARCELONA 0-1 (1 goal Romario) SEVILLA-BARCELONA 1-2 (2 goals Romario) BENFICA DE LISBOA-BARCELONA 2-1 (1 goal Romario) BARCELONA-HAJDUK SPLIT 4-0 (3 goals Romario) BARCELONA-TENERIFE 1-3 (1 goal Romario) BOCA JUNIORS-BARCELONA 0-0 (Boca wins after penalties) TENERIFE-BARCELONA 1-5 (3 goals Romario) PARMA-BARCELONA 0-0 COPENHAGUE-BARCELONA 2-3 BARCELONA-BORUSSIA DORTMUND 3-0 BARCELONA-BAYERN DE MUNICH 1-0 That are in fact 17 games (not 8) and 14 goals. Barcelona scored 33 team goals. If you want to compare apples with apples: Stoichkov won the Don Balon award for best rated foreigner in 1993-94. But of course, marketing and the FIFA bonus only counts for Ronaldo. N.B. wanted to highlight he played in 17 and not 8 as you said. But now everything is really said and done.
Yeah that isn't actually an assist of Romario, but Stoichkov's. Thought first it rebounded from defender. So it's 13 assists (wide) for Romario 93-94 La Liga. Thanks for the correction.
I was only making the point that like @leadleader suggested earlier, I too wanted to keep a La Liga vs La Liga comparison for the sake of consistency and fairness. But since it was you who persisted to throw in Supercup and CdR (not me!) I felt compelled to suggest add the pre-season as well for the sake of consistency. I mean, it was you who deviated from the Liga vs Liga, and stretched the argument beyond it with Supercup and CdR. Cause if you were to include Supercup and CdR like you wanted, than I figured we should then throw in all the rest of that season into the soup pot. Hey, I mean, why make exceptions and half measures, instead of going half way, why not go all the way? So thanks for your collaboration on the list, and yes, you are right that it should have been 17 games and not 8. And yes, Stoichkov won Ballon D'Or while Romario won FIFA world player of the year. In my opinion, arguably same prestige of an award.
Not according to the regulations. I take the laws of the game back as depicted in the FIFA 86 articles, remained the status quo until the mid 90's. Abiding to the regulations and with full extend of the definition of the term "assist" that volley is "technically" logged as an assist and the full points should be given. Assist can go as far as going back to two previous players involved in the scoring (build up). Pre-assists are also classed as assist in the purist sense of the definition of the word, and in accordance with the law of the game. But be that as it may, even if I agreed with your point, which to be honest, is an acceptable and very reasonable conclusion, 13 assists still looks remarkable. And 13 assists is still above that of R9's own tally, nevertheless. So yes, I dont have any objections to nullify that point. 13 assist then it is.
Yeah, that isn't used in today's standard of wide rules, neither is by getting a scored freekick. Only the last team mate to touch the ball gets an assists. That's why I removed it from the table.
you removed it from THE table? did you say THE table? LMFAO! as if your table was some officially endorsed and approved by any football authority in the end of the day, the overwhelming majority of posters on these forum don't take your tables and your comments seriously any more. Who gives a rat ass if you remove or add any point to YOUR table. Who cares?
This is often said a lot, although I personally think Frank de Boer was clearly man of the match. In that classic semifinal between Netherlands and Brazil at the 1998 World Cup, I would rate Frank de Boer a 9/10 follow by Ronaldo and Kluivert 8/10. F. de Boer played intelligently against Ronaldo, he was excellent throughout the game and marked Ronaldo very well except for 20 seconds whose it is a victim of poor focus, which controls the players generally moment its re-play in the second half. Without him the game will not resort to the penalty shootout, he has made extremis saving, cleared a Ronaldo's shot off the line, made a great tackle between Ronaldo's legs and blocked last minute's shot by Rivaldo. Almost scored the equalizer straight after Ronaldo's opening goal and his long pass gave kluivert a great chance to advance. Ronaldo also played a great match, after that Bebeto was extinguished completely and failed to cooperate with Ronaldo in attack. Ronaldo had the game's key moments, he took a clever pass from Rivaldo and scored after a superb effort (that goal almost could be decisive), also made two great chances in extra time. So it can't be as "one of the best semi final performances ever" by an striker when his "rival" opponent who marking him tightly, exactly had a great game in the same match too.
You people need to read the entirety of this article http://www.theguardian.com/football...ar-lionel-messi-barcelona-clasico-real-madrid
While our defense, especially Arteta cost us 2 goals, we still created enough to win the game, but our finishing wasn't good enough.
This El Clasico showed that Barca is not dependent on Messi alone. Suarez and Neymar have again shown that they are equal and no less to Messi when it comes to be league title definers. And Iniesta is still a big match player. Like Godzilla, he'll be awaken from his sleep to bring about destruction whenever the big occasion appears. @leadleader @Once @Once @celito @Edhardy @Puskas 1988 who do you think was MoM?
MoM goes to Neymar in my opinion. But had Iniesta not been benched so early in the second half, I think Iniesta would've probably been the MoM. Both Iniesta and Neymar were amazing at their respective roles.
What a player Iniesta is.. PotM in the poll organized by the transmission I watched ahead of Neymar, Bravo and Sergi Roberto (not sure about the last one, might have been someone else). Dont remember the last time I saw such a dim Real Madrid...
MOM was the keeper. but Suarez and Neymar are not equal to Messi. This was probably the worst RM side of the past 5 years, keep that in mind.
Iniesta was my personal motm, Suarez, Neymar and surprisingly Claudio Bravo were the next best. To be honest so many players looked good out there. On one hand you can only applaud that, on the other one has to really question how good Madrid were or generally are. The signs were there to see when they faced PSG. On the issue of Neymar / Suarez being equal to Messi, maybe both of them combined? I'm not sure how you mean it. Against a set defence like Atletico/Juve or an organised press like Bayern Munich, I'd wager Barcelona would stand a better chance with Messi on the pitch (Iniesta at his best can fix this though). Neymar's and Suarez technical /physical / mental attributes haven't shot up over night. They have just embraced more responsibility, and Busquets, Iniesta, Sergi Roberto have also stepped up majorly, whereas in the past there's almost an attitude to "give the ball to Messi and see" Unless Messi's abilities start to diminish I don't see how they are better.