strongest/best all time team

Yes, I remember we discussed a similar topic a few years ago and each of our views may have changed ever so slightly but many things remain the same. I think before you favoured Amoros at left back, but maybe now Bossis then? Before you said I should have Bossis in the squad and now I definitely would (if it was 23 players, maybe even if it was 18). I mentioned Piantoni as reserve last time and you said you might favour him over Pires I think, but maybe now you favour Vincent over both (at least as left winger) - I was impressed with Vincent vs Spain in 1959 in the meantime IIRC though.

 

That would work... except I don't think Cantona would do well at that false-winger position. Jean Vincent or Roger Piantoni would be more suitable choices I think.

 

Papin would be in a 23 man squad if I picked it too. I did write down two 18 man squads after Tony suggested that number and I think Papin must have been starting striker in squad 2 (with Trezeguet in reserve). I could have mentioned Papin indeed. Rocheteau does offer cover in the supporting attacking positions I think with good versatility and as has been mentioned at his best he did have a very good combination of skill, pace and incisiveness and an entertaining style I think.

 

Yes I favour Bossis a bit, but not a large margin of course. You can't be wrong with going with Amoros or Lizarazu (or perhaps Roger Marche but he's hard to rank) anyway. I just think Bossis was the most talented player as I mentioned earlier in this thread.
As for Vincent, he was a natural left winger and thus was probably better than Piantoni at that position indeed (Piantoni could play wide but he was more an inside-left like Puskas whereas I guess you could compare Vincent with Czibor). Vincent also played left midfielder and even left-back at the end of his carreer :

http://www.chroniquesbleues.fr/Jean-Vincent-au-temps-du-blue

I would favour him over Pires too because I have the feeling he was more influential in the teams he played with, at least with the NT. He had an illustrious carreer with Stade de Reims and he was one of the key players of the 50's French team whereas Pires had a more peripheral role with France (except in 2002-03). It's quite weird that Vincent is always forgotten when thinking about the 50's French team whereas he was no less important than Fontaine, Kopa and Piantoni in it.

On a side note, Vincent was also a great coach : he trained the great late 70's-early 80's FC Nantes team in which Bossis played.

 

Since I've compared Vincent with Czibor and Piantoni with Puskas in the post above, I've just realized France and Hungary played a game in 1956. Here are the highlights :

http://www.ina.fr/video/CAF95009762

France lost 1-2 (Machos and Kocsis scored for Hungary ; Cisowski scored for France).
Kopa didn't play that game though.

 

in that case, Cantona would be like Jairzinho (a scroing winger but on left) and Kopa became like Rivelino

 

The problem remains the same : Cantona didn't have the attributes to play wide. He was essentially a central player. He would be wasted playing there.

 

He did .. watch his days in ManU, often he was drifting to the left ... before getting into the box and score (similar to Henry, Cruyff ...)

 

Probably we've different definitions of what is an all-timer. I was thinking about players who could be considered in the top 5 of his generation worldwide and/or in a general top 100.

From that point of view I only think on the Uruguayan offensive players "Pepe" Schiaffino, Héctor Scarone and Enzo Francescoli, although there are other class options: Pedro Rocha, Roberto Porta, Aníbal Ciocca, Alcides Ghiggia, Luis Cubilla, Walter Gómez, Ángel Romano, Isabelino Gradín, José Piendibene, Luis Suárez, Diego Forlán, Pedro Petrone, Fernando Morena...

 

You left it glimpsed earlier, the question is why?

 

If you go by top five of his generation then I agree with those three and I would add Gomez and Suarez as well.

 

Thanks. ina.fr do have a lot of good highlights etc - I'd seen and used the Kocsis goal but hadn't come across those highlights before. Had to double-check it was Fontaine wearing number 9 actually (which it was)!

Re the psot above this one:
- Yeah, I'm normally tempted with the more technical/skillful players anyway (even in defence) so certainly would be with Bossis but in this instance I'm probably sticking with the suitability of Lizarazu in that role in terms of being excellent and reliable in all functions of a left-back (defensively and going forwards). The fact I lived through Lizarazu's time in the NT might have some influence still I guess though.
- I can understand that Vincent was a more natural winger yeah and of course played the role much more than Piantoni. I think Piantoni stands out for his skills and goals a little more, and of course I wasn't really lining up players as outright wingers in my French line-up (as opposed to England/Britain or Hungary/Rest of World) with the closest to an exception being if Pires played mainly as an attacking left midfielder. I don't think Pires is a shoe-in given the options but putting all this together (including one of my videos - in alphabetical order, to show some pre 01-02 stuff) gives the impression of why I rate him so highly I think:



I used quite a bit from the end of 00/01 in my video for him, but there is also the play at 0:50 and the assist at 1:24 in the FA Cup Final:

 

I started watching this the other day too and will try and finish it and recap fully on Vieira's display in that final but the play from 1:07 to 1:22 shows Pires qualities again too I noticed/remembered:

Also this:

And numbers 9 and 4 here:

Plus a goal I can't find on a compilation or in highlights now but I have seen on Youtube, vs Chelsea or maybe Everton in 00/01 which is quite similar to his goal vs Tottenham on my video where he evades players on the left and curls home a goal. I'll try and find it later. I think I made a similar post for him before but this is as complete as possible I think (not to change your mind really but just to illustrate my thinking).

 

Perhaps, but I still have my doubts to be honest. I prefer a true wide player playing on the flank.

 

Yes thanks for those videos. I'm a big fan of Pires actually and I rank myself quite high. This said, I think his carreer with Les Bleus should have been a bit better, considering what he was able to do on the field. He was most of the time a kind of 'super-sub' and was really a key player for a short time in the early 2000's. It's not completely his fault though as he got injured before WC02 and as he had issues with Domenech who called him only a few times in 2004 whereas he should have logically led the team when Zidane retired.
Anyway, perhaps the best French winger -based on pure skills- is David Ginola (PSG version ).

About Jean Vincent, even though he was originally a left-winger, he also played a bit everywhere on the field : as I said, he played also left-midfielder (WC58 for example) and even left-back at the end of his carreer.
At club level with Lille and Reims he sometimes played centre-forward and inside-left. So I guess his role may have been relatively close to Piantoni's one.

 

Yes, it would not really be 'fair' as there was never a British team in the past (more 'fair' to join all Yugoslavian players or all Soviet players I think) but like I say if 8 evenly matched teams were wanted (hypothetically to be in a tournament like Euro 84/88 with maybe knock-out matches for 3rd/4th in the group amongst themselves too, or just a league format for all 8 teams followed by semi-finals) then I think adding a British team and a Rest of the World team would make that possible (wheras England alone and certainly Hungary, or Spain or whoever, would likely not have the same chances to actually win such a tournament).

I think as wing forwards, with Dalglish as false 9 then Best and Finney would seem to make the most sense to me too. In a 4-3-3 with perhaps wide wingers, a target striker like Lawton and a couple of CM/AM's then perhaps Matthews has a good case to be selected. In a 4-1-3-2 like I picked (but I'd have Dalglish as second striker really in a British team) then it's hard, especially not living through their era, to say whether Matthews or Finney might do better (it would likely come down to form anyway I suppose).

 

Yeah, to me from what I've seen Vincent seems a better runner while Piantoni has a bit extra in terms of skill and inspiration.

Ginola would indeed be the biggest virtuoso as a talent on the wing. He was IIRC close to being Player of the Year for Newcastle in 95/96 too btw (when he probably did stick to being a winger more than in France? - sending a lot of crosses to Ferdinand). And then he was still a individualist at Tottenham and did win a Player of the Year award. I do remember him starring for PSG myself though (perhaps dived a few times IIRC though lol!) from European games etc.

 

Yes, he was more a second striker with PSG, roaming a bit everywhere up-front alongside Weah with Valdo or Raï behind them.

 

adding ...
Ginola became a winger in EPL for Tottenhams

 

Both Cantona and Ginola were better support striker than Henry (but Henry had a better goals record)
All 3 could play as CF, SS and FW on the wing