Strikers who are mediocre team superstars

Actually JFH contributed to Atletico de Madrid's demotion to Segunda. He scored goals, yes, but many times he was like a black hole. Give him the ball and he either shoots or loses it. BTW, Atletico may be a medicre team nowadays but they were at one point a Grande. Even won the double in Spain a few years ago.

Anyway with JFH you have to have a team prepared to lose possesion of the ball easier, at least that is what I saw when he was at Atletico. I haven't followed him since he moved back up to the EPL.

 

JFH, is, imo, the best striker in the world. If not that then DEFINITELY in the EPL, you can't write off the amount of golden boots he's got, if he was playing for Arsenal, Man U or 'Pool he's hit 30 a season, let alone the gaurenteed 20 he already gets. How the Dutch justify putting the bottler and over rated Kluivert in ahead of him is unreal.

 

That's the sign of a goal scorer, any striker who nets 20+ a season is worth a place in any side in the world.

 

In a word, No. I'm suprised hearing that from a Liverpool fan, tbh, given Owens recent goals to shot ratio and the possesion lost as a result, would you sell him? I'd be willing to wager no, it's the sign of a good striker that they get the chances, and Jimmy rarely misses. Also, he's not as selfish as some people think, I'd love to see some stats, but he set up a majority of Gudjohnsens goals last year, I remember he was through on goal and squared it to Gudjohnsen for an open goal, it wasn't the only example of this.

About your theories, yes, some of them are true and I can see what you mean, but, it all evens out. If your on a mediocre team you see less of the ball anyway, have less chances and have less creative players, so while they're probably through, the counter argument just about evens everything out imo.

Also, Chelsea played as many games as most, don't forget they played 38 league games, got to the FA Cup final and had a run in Europe, as many as most teams really.

 

Liverpool_SC>>> You took the words out of my mouth with Stan Collymore as a good player in a weaker side. When he was Liverpool other than a few good strikes his whole game fell to peices after he realized he wasnt the biggest name in the dressing room.

I would also move to nominate Ravianelli on this topic as performer that while bagging his fair share of goals kills the rest of his team with his on and off feild attitude.

 

True, to a point - but if the star strikerobviously has class (as JFH does, just to stick with the example), then they'll likely be given as long as they need to sort it out. Witness Ruud van Nistelrooy and Michael Owen at the moment. And, for that matter, Jimmy Floyd hasselbaink.

Granted, but that mainly goes for really small clubs - Chelsea and Atletico aren't THAT badly off. Gudjohnsen, Zola, Forssell and Cole are very able deputies if Hasselbaink starts causing agro.

Same as above - neither Chelsea nor Atletico are that small - Chelsea are generally acknowledged to be a top 6 or 7 side. And, if a small team does have one obvious superstar, he'll be occupying most of the "bigger" club's attention, thus needing their class to get any chances anyway, while also freeing up room for his teammates. Sorry, I don't agree there.

Not as many games in which to score their 20 goals a season, either.

A mediocre team will be more worried about not conceding goals than about scoring, so the striker will have to work harder and be more clinical. Anyway, all teams build around a core group of players - Keane, Beckham, Giggs, Van Nistelrooy and Man Utd......Vieira, Henry, Campbell at Arsenal.......Hyypia, Hamann, Gerrard, Owen at Liverpool.....you get where I'm going. Very few teams have no one outstanding player.

 

If you were happy they didnt get Bowyer, I am sure you were dancing in the street when Houiller said no thanks on his option to buy Nic Anelka!

The most perfect example of this type of player.

As anyone can attest, at every club he has gone too big or small he has caused utter chaos and havoc. But he was exposed even by a lackluster Madrid side for the bum he can be. He is gifted in the skills department almost beyond comperhension, but his piss poor attitude is his biggest downfall, and dont get me started on his agent brothers they are worse than him.

If anyone who doubts me has the issue of Four Four Two with Giggs and Anelka on the cover just read the timeline covering his much traveled footballing exploits this should sum up my assesment of him quite well.

Even his own former youth coach who is overseeing the development of the young French scoring sensation Debrjil Ceisse said to the media regarding Ceisse and I quote " I am not sure what all the fuss is about. He has a decent right foot, no left foot and poor heading ability. For Christ sakes please dont turn him in to another Anelka"
That comming from the man who brought you up in the game is saying alot about how you are regared as a player and a person.

 

Firstly, I think you're being very arrogant towards Chelsea calling them mediocre. They are a regular top 6 side in the division. Liverpool haven't won the league for a while. Does that make them mediocre aswell?

I don't really see this as an argument as there's no cut and dry answer. It just depends on the player. Some thrive in an envrionment where they are the man. Take Kevin Phillips at Sunderland, he's always been the star striker but has had opportunites to move to bigger clubs. Perhaps he'd choke. Other players play better when surrounded by quality. Maybe it's the type of striker you are talking about. The striker that creates his own chances will perform well in a less competitive team but a "fox in the box" type striker would rely on other creative players to lay him up and would therefore play better in a decent side.

 

Morrison, definitely not, since in one international start he's three goals (All coming in seperate matches) and will enver have the profile Robbie Keane has and yet has still preformed brilliant, as those stats showed. He's completed about three full international halves of football and still has three full international goals.

 

"mediocre team superstars?"

http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=oxymoron

 

I didn't say that. There are plenty of players in plenty of sports who are great, yet never manage to win a championship. Patrick Ewing, just retired from the NBA. Barry Sanders in American football. The late Ted Williams in baseball. Just off the top of my head, those are three other-sport examples of great players who never won a title.

So I don't see why that couldn't happen in the Premiership. I was merely quibbling with your choice of words, but I'm now finally getting your phrase as the caffeine is hitting my brain here in the Pacific Time Zone.

How about "Great strikers stuck on crap teams?"

 

It's an interesting question. How successful would someone like Le Tiss have been if he had moved to Man U or Spurs, as he apparently had the chance to in his prime, but for personal reasons stuck with the Saints.

At the Dell, Tiss was the stud and took all the PKs and free kicks and saw a lot of playing time (when healthy). Would Tiss get to take the free kick or PK when Beckham is in the line up? Iffy.

At Southampton, Tiss is a legend. And he is regarded highly throughout the league. But if he had played for Arsenal or Man U., would he have been "just another player?"

 

If we're not restricting the discussion to Premiership teams, the ultimate mediocre team super striker has to be Mario Jardel, hands down.

 

This is true about him with the ball, at least at Atletico - while he was racking up the goals, he was pretty much the only one scoring, because he simply wouldn't pass. His strike partner for the season, Spanish international Kiko Narvaez, finished the season with literally 0 goals because he basically never saw the ball.

 

Good point, Liverpool. Maybe I should have used Dave Kingman (baseball) and -- oh, heck, I can't think of an American football player as an equivalent other than Dan Marino, and I hate to put him in the same category.

Yeah, I can see the point. You've got someone who can do the job for a particular team, but would be lost if transferred to a higher-quality side.

I need more caffeine.

 

He's a striker! It's his job to shoot the ball. Strikers are supposed to be selfish and they're supposed to score JFH does both. How does scoring 30 goals weaken his team? Would you rather him be like Jaime Moreno???

Rich

 

I think you are making things way too complicated. There are lots of great players in the world. They can't all be champions and they can't all play for championship teams.

Batistuta played for years with Fiorentina and won only 1 Italian Cup. In his first season with Roma he won the Scudetto and then won the Italian Super Cup. You could ask if Batistuta was holding back Fiorentina. You could also ask if Fiorentina would have sunk without him. I think you all know which answer is more likely correct. Because I can assure you that without his 20 goals in 2001, Roma would not have won the Scudetto.

Shevchenko has won zippo with Milan. Would you want him in your side? Enough said.