Striker Call-Ups for the Fall

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by gogorath, Aug 16, 2019.

  1. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is the definition of a shame....IMHO. No skill development so left with a stiff who's 'the best we got' for far, far too long.
     
  2. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Altidore is a stiff now?
     
  3. yankthisyank'swank

    Oct 13, 2010
    He’s a stiff and Josh Sargent is “stronger” than him.
     
  4. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At least Sargent don't fall when touched.
     
  5. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    You also left out the 'Missing Gen' and the Copa Semis.
    Prior results are no guarantee of future outcomes. This is a fundamental truth you should try to understand. And our subsequent loss to the Mexican 'B team' in the GC underlines the current trend.
    JK coached 2/10s of WCQing. That is the reality I conveyed. You seem to be arguing against ghosts.
     
  6. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    I remember the way that fans talked about Donovan, Beasley, Dempsey, etc, as well. Wouldn't it be fantastic to have those guys right now.
     
  7. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    The problem with Altidore is his health, not his ability level.
    When he's healthy and match-fit, he's our best forward.
    Frankly, the young guys haven't passed Zardes yet.
    We all think they should be able to do it, but they haven't done so yet.
     
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  8. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Watch out! You might get assaulted on BS for stating this!
     
  9. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    For me, I'd call in Sargent, Weah, Nova and Soto (provided he plays for Hannover). Get them some regular caps so they can show what they can do.

    No reason to still call in Zardes or Morris.
     
  10. eric_appleby

    eric_appleby Member+

    Jun 11, 1999
    Down East
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep. I remember when I used to believe we would be producing players that quality every WC cycle. Damn was I wrong.
     
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  11. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    A repost--

    The conceit that Altidore is the program's best striker is wholly without merit. Historically, his competitive match against quality sides has been poor. His recent record has been no better. For the '18 cycle, he scored a brace in the home blowout of Panama. He then added a goal against Costa Rica in the 'B Team' Gold Cup.

    In 11 competitive against Costa Rica and Mexico, Jozy has one goal 1.


    He has 0 road goals on the list.

    He had an excellent record in the Eredivisie. But we've had other middling forwards who've demonstrated an ability to score in that league. Even Michael Bradley banged in 19 goals during the '07-'08 Eredivisie season. Beyond that, Jozy has been an excellent MLS forward. Great.

    Who should start in his place? We only have some friendlies and Nations League coming up. Open up the position. Give others chances. Reggie Cannon was given a chance and look how well he performed against Mexico.


    Goal scorers in Altidore's competitive starts against quality sides.

    (WCQing[Top 4 Hex], Gold Cup, Confederations Cup, Concacaf Cup, World Cup):

    2010 Cycle
    (Top 4 Hex = Mexico, US, Hon, CR)
    Costa Rica: Donovan
    Honduras: Donovan, Bocanegra
    Italy: Donovan
    Brasil:
    Egypt: Bradley, Davies, Dempsey
    Spain: Altidore, Dempsey
    Costa Rica: Bradley, Bornstein
    England: Dempsey
    Slovenia: Donovan, Bradley
    Algeria: Donovan
    Ghana: Donovan

    2014 Cycle: (Top 4 Hex = Mexico, US, Hon, CR)
    Honduras: Dempsey
    Costa Rica: Dempsey
    Mexico:
    Honduras: Altidore
    Ghana: Dempsey, Brooks

    2018 Cycle: (Top 4 Hex = Mexico, CR, Hon, Pan)
    Honduras: Dempsey(2)
    Mexico: Cameron, Wood
    Mexico: Wood
    Costa Rica:
    Honduras: Dempsey(3), Lletget, Bradley, Pulisic
    Panama: Dempsey
    Mexico: Bradley
    Costa Rica: Altidore
    Costa Rica:
    Panama: Altidore(2), Wood, Pulisic
     
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  12. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    This idea that other forwards have to 'pass' Altidore is a canard. Teams move mediocre or declining veterans to clear the way for younger or unproven players. Otherwise, only mid-career players would get a shot. FCD is great example of a club that practices this. Hell, they even bench or move stellar players to make way for youngsters.
     
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  13. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    We can give lots of opportunities to young players over the next calendar year. They can grow and challenge the veterans for the job when the games actually start to matter.

    But Sargent and Soto and those young forwards do actually have to earn it. We're not just going to hand the job over. They'll be given opportunities to do so, but I'm not going to pre-determine who's going to win that battle. Same is true for somebody like Paxton Pomykal. He's going to be called up to the USMNT, and then he has to play well in order to become part of the group going forward. He has to demonstrate that he deserves USMNT callups over other central midfielders like Nagbe and Lletget and Jackson Yueill. The list goes on.

    All we can ask for as fans is that lots of guys are given a chance to win the job, and may the best man win. If that's Jozy Altidore and Gyasi Zardes...……..so be it.
     
  14. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    It’s hard to argue that Jozy doesn’t belong in the USMNT. Our team looked better with him on the field vs Mexico.

    Him being on the squad doesn’t have to mean that up-and-coming prospects don’t get a chance to surpass him - he’s not an elite striker but he’s among the best we have.

    I also agree with JuveChelsea - we should call in wood to give him a chance to knock off some rust in a new environment.
     
  15. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    It was Mexico, so they were going to put their best foot forward. Yet, they didn't score any against that same Mexican B team.
     
  16. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #66 juvechelsea, Aug 28, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
    so will bradley. the issue is we can't live in the past. the vein of american personnel approach where old players are "proven" and kids are "risky and haven't even show they can play pro ball well yet" is winning out right now. it's similar to bruce arena who would have few people below 25 and a lot near or past 30.

    there is a different vein which is the first cycle klinsmann and sarachan approach. you openly chase dual nationals and take risks on younger players. pulisic was barely a first team club player when called in. today would he get the sargent and weah treatment? go prove yourself and then we'll talk? ditto landon. and lately we seem to view a "green" type dual national pick as risky for both sports and apparently "chemistry" reasons. in other words, an aggressive personnel approach is off putting. who elected the current members of the team to some office? we pick the best 23. it says something about the "clubby" and "snobby" nature of the team last cycle that we felt like the struggling incumbents had any say in who else could join the club. cameron couldn't play for sh*t. why does he get to mouth off about bias?

    oddly, i think we have gone backwards in terms of coaching IQ. we seem less and less interested in chasing results as an isolated end. we seem more interested in style and politics. we need to play pretty. we need to play a way that reminds certain people of tv soccer. we need to be club snobs. we need to make the kids earn their way up. etc. etc. except the unstated thing is i remember when we were still qualifying at least some snobs talking like they'd be content to miss a world cup to change our style. so this is potentially not a glitch, this is feature. i don't want this feature. i prefer beating mexico.

    using a kid in a friendly is costless and unrisky. worse, we already know the outcome of a bradley/jozy/zardes/brooks, etc. team. i don't understand where the nostalgia for these players comes from, it's been 5 years since the last world cup. they aren't that good. i could get trying to extend out success. but failure? this should be a youth movement with the older players held in emergency reserve.
     
  17. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Wood seems to be a player that has extremely high ups&downs in terms of confidence. When he's match fit and confident, he seems like an international caliber player. But that's interspersed with long periods of nothingness.............

    Right now Wood hasn't been playing for a Bund2 team.
    Shouldn't we call up Green over Wood, as Julian is playing well so far this season? Green, by the way, only just turned 24. [Julian has been playing a little more of a attacking midfield role, though.]

    Don't get me wrong. I have no issue with Wood being called in. It just seems to me that if you're a player not getting on the field in Bund2, then you can't expect inclusion in the national team.
     
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  18. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe Jozy went like 9 months without scoring, yet, he was always called for the national team. Did he earn it? I don't think so. Even when called, slowpoke Dempsey usually did the scoring.
     
  19. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    The question isn't just Jozy in isolation.

    Its what the other options are as well.......................................

    Right now folks make a list of their top 5 USMNT forwards, and they have to really argue themselves into pretzels in order to say Jozy shouldn't be in that group. They have to argue that players who don't score or have the same impact in a league of the same caliber that Jozy is playing in..................should be called instead.

    Nobody has a problem with "casting a wide net" over the next calendar year. Who wouldn't? Nobody is arguing that our young and emerging forwards shouldn't also be given opportunties and chances. But our forward pool is REALLY shallow. That's why Jozy is still in it.

    Folks act like Jozy Altidore is 35 and about to get retirement benefits. He's 29.
    He's what................3 years younger than Michael Bradley?
     
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  20. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm just pointing out the double-standard between Jozy and the rest of the forwards. When I evaluate a player I don't look at past record. For the past 10 years that I been watching Altidore, his only improvement (in my eyes) is his hold up play and dead-ball shots. Everything else has remained the same. His aerial game is weak, his attacking moves are limited, he always cuts inside as his only move to make space. His stamina is weak. And as he has gotten older he feels he should get every call and will shutdown if he doesn't get it. Now, some of the young ones are way faster, have better moves, can score with headers yet, they are not called because they haven't done anything, well, they are young, what do they expect, be a starter in a league that Jozy has never played?
     
  21. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    It’s a fair point on green vs. wood although they play different positions. I do think that wood has a higher upside than green and at his best is slightly better than Jozy (who is clearly a best 23, if not starter for me).

    Given how Wood has bled for the shirt and potentially suffered career wise for it (due to injury as chandler warned), I’d give him a runout to see if he can re-spark his game. I understand that others think he has to get playing time in MLS equivalent b2 though.
     
  22. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Well.................here is the forward group that was just announced for the USMNT.

    Corey Baird, Jordan Morris, Tyler Boyd, Josh Sargent, Gyasi Zardes, Christian Pulisic.

    Now I imagine Boyd and Pulisic are there to play on the wings. Maybe Morris too.

    Are you telling me you think Corey Baird is better than Jozy Altidore? He's younger. That's about the only argument one can make.

    Leading domestic goal-scorers in MLS this season are Zardes, Wondolowski, and Altidore. Such is the state of the forward position. Its a really shallow pool.
     
  23. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have no idea why Baird continues to get looks, he is a marginal player.
    P.S. Sargent is in there, so there is hope.
     
  24. HScoach13

    HScoach13 Member+

    Nov 30, 2016
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Baird is in because of the lack of Arriola and Weah, if either of these were their Baird would be at home.
     
    gogorath repped this.
  25. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I think Sargent is the "hope."
    That's the problem. He hasn't done it yet. We're hoping.
    [We have other hopes as well. Include Hoppe :)]

    I'm not a fan of the Baird call up. If we're going to go with a youngish player, I would have preferred maybe Sabbi of Hobro.

    But hey, I like that roster overall. There will always be a couple of selections I disagree with. The forward group looks weak because the forward pool is weak.
     

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