Stop Dragan this Out: The Wenger Succession Thread

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by elessar78, Feb 15, 2017.

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  1. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    984108190731329536 is not a valid tweet id


    The attack has been superb this season, but dear lord the defense. The press is mediocre (this was a surprise - thought it had been good whenever I watched), the shot quality conceded :eek:
     
  2. scott47a

    scott47a Member+

    Seattle Sounders FC; Arsenal FC
    Feb 6, 2007
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's a short history though.

    Highbury was as packed and as passionate as it gets. The team got too big and started flying in fans from all around the globe and in this overpriced, oversized stadium and some of the passion was bound to go away.

    I'm kinda hopeful that 6th place will sort out the issue of fair-weathered fans who only love the team when they are winning. Passionate and bandwagoning don't go together.
     
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  3. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    it's common knowledge that Anfield had/has better atmosphere than Highbury/Emirates - going back to well before the champions league.

    common knowledge can be wrong of course. but folks saying otherwise are going to have a pretty hard sell, here.
     
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  4. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mike I think you're drinkin the kool-aid. ;)

    Sorry to use an American idiom.
     
  5. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    This is why the lose game / blame Ozil routine is so lame
     
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  6. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    As much as I enjoyed my experience at Highbury this is far from true.

    Especially when I came to germany and went to St Pauli pre-stadium upgrade, the atmos with only 11K people was phenomenal

    I would also say that the atmosphere at both WHL and Highbury was sedate compared to say Lancaster Park or the old Carisbrook for Rugby or cricket back home

    Let alone a test match in Wales or Scotland
     
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  7. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Technically --- Jim Jones and his followers drank Flavor-Aid. But the poor Cool-Aid man has been wrongfully smeared ever since.
     
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  8. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Which is the reason why I used the phrase "romantic view". There are English football fans in droves visiting Bundesliga games for atmosphere
     
  9. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Watchin the extended highlights last night and the raucous crowds at Marseille, Roma, and maybe even Salzburg, it's really hard to imagine an Arsenal crowd getting that loud and animated these days.

    The Marseille fans in particular were packed in and going absolutely nuts. Which is interesting in itself, in that the crowds in Ligue1 for the past several years have been super sparse, even for the big teams like Monaco, Lyon & OM. But they turned out in force last night and the Stade Velodrome was rockin... literally.

    I think there have definitely been some occasions during the last 20 yrs where Arsenal home fans went a bit nuts, but I don't think it's happened much in the last 10 yrs, i.e. at the soulless bowl... but more so at Highbury which because of it's tight vertical design was just more conducive to atmosphere. And even then, it was widely referred to as the Library for quite a few years.

    I think we just have to be honest that our home fans are just not the most loud, passionate, atmospheric bunch.

    p.s. Let them prove me wrong when Diego Costa and ATM come to town!
     
  10. cantona94

    cantona94 Member

    Jul 16, 2000
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you would see the atmosphere at Arsenal games increase tremendously if Wenger were gone. This belief that Arsenal fans are not very passionate and what not has seemingly only come about in the last ten years, the same period of this malaise under Wenger’s watch and his refusal to leave.
     
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  11. bandwagongooner

    bandwagongooner Member+

    Dec 9, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The danger for any sports franchise or league is apathy. Once people realize that life goes on without Arsenal or the Premier League it's all downhill
     
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  12. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, firstly I think you're making the assumption that we would improve post-Wenger. Because if we don't, then I can't see that there will necessarily be more butts in seats, and more passionate ones at that.

    And secondly, I think our reputation for relatively polite, subdued home fans goes back farther than you seem to think. When I googled "Highbury Library" here's a few things that came up:
    That said, certainly there have been some absolutely brilliant days of steady, boisterous support. But those tend to be the exceptional, special days like when we won the league or had a big European night* or played our last every match at Highbury. But those atmospheric days just haven't been as consistent as they tend to be at a place like Anfield or St.James Park. Shoot, even Selhurst Park in recent years seems to have more consistent "passion" than our place does.

    * Our biggest European night was probably Anderlecht 1970 when we won the Fairs Cup. My time in London started 3 years after that sadly. But I was lucky enough to make a pilgrimage back to Highbury in 2006 which included Villareal in UCL Semi, but I must say that I remember being surprised at how quiet (nervous?) everyone was was most of the time, except of course when Kolo stuck the only goal of the tie. :) Another huge Euro night was 1994 when we beat PSG in the CWC Semis, but even then the crowd seems quite subdued most of the time except for the goal and the final whistle.

    Here are some vids of those nights:

    1970


    1994


    2006


    Watching all of those, and reflecting on history, I think the atmosphere in the 70's (and perhaps the 80's... I wasn't there then) was much more passionate, due to large terraces, cheap admissions & working class supporters. The post-Hillsborough all-seaters and the gentrification of the EPL definitely put a major damper on the old atmosphere. So I guess that the "library" reputation started sometime in the mid-90's.
     
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  13. cantona94

    cantona94 Member

    Jul 16, 2000
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1738 cantona94, Apr 14, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
    Perhaps the British middle class share some of the American middle class supposed traits about sports? The theory is that the middle class generally behaves rather well and somewhat restrained at certain events. I think college football over here in some areas would challenge that notion BUT compared to the NFL fans as a whole, it’s very reserved.

    Given that Arsenal fans pay the highest ticket prices in Europe one can assume (tenuously probably) that they are rather well off and perhaps more so than the other fan bases. Thus, the atmosphere goes hand in hand with the supposed reserved behavior of the middle and upper class. You never know? I do think, regardless of if Arsenal improve or not after Wenger leaves, those first few games after he is finally gone will probably show a dramatic improvement. Whether that lasts is a whole other issue.
     
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  14. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    When I lived in north London in 2002 Highbury was mocked for the lack of noise - its not a new thing

    At the time I wondered if it was because the ground was so small

    One noticeable thing compared to St Pauli or BvB or Bayern is there is not much in the way of classic singing etc
     
  15. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I think the english football fans sing very little compared to germany or indeed other sports

    Go to the rugby in Wales or Scotland and the fans singing is immense. Even Twickenham is fairly throaty since they rediscovered Swing Low

    I've been to WHL and to Old Trafford and I thought the fan support was super lame at both those places as well
     
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  16. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, Highbury was plenty big enough, even at it's reduced 34K. And the general consensus is that the Grove at 60K is probably worse for atmosphere.

    From all accounts this is a good time to be a footy fan in Germany. You should get your butt out to the ground(s) as much as you can. :)
     
  17. And_ROOS

    And_ROOS Member+

    Dec 30, 2006
    Melbourne, Aus
    I'll be in Munich at the end of November, when does their season go on break?
     
  18. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    the Lane is* very hit or miss. I've been when it's been really good - by any standard - but also seen it quite poor. then again, I suppose fans of any club who only go once or twice a year could say similar.

    that said, loads of Spurs fans lament how bad it has become just over the last 10 or so years relative to what came before. most seem to attribute it to the graying of attending fans, as the loyalty points system, pricing, and the season ticket waiting list has made it tougher and tougher to get a lot of young fans in. many speculate that the much larger new ground will improve the situation; but I'll believe it when I see it.

    I've been to some 25-30 grounds in England. in Germany, I've been to Eintracht Frankfurt, St Pauli, Schalke, Freiburg, Union, and 'gladbach. with the exception of a couple of particularly good games at the Lane, each of the latter have it all over all of the former.

    It has to be said - though my CAMRA mates would take issue - the beer's better there, too.


    *Edit: was. :(
     
  19. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    The new Spurs stadium is everything I'd want the Emirates to be. Having that single stand is gonna be so cool and will be perfect if and when safe standing is allowed again. I can definitely see how much it may improve the atmosphere.

    But truly, the things that improve atmosphere are probably, in order, 1. accessibility to working class/young fans, 2. culture of atmosphere, 3. culture of success, and 4. the stadium. In the NFL everyone likes to credit the Century Link Stadium for why the fans are so loud in Seattle. It plays a role but 2 and 3 are more important. I feel like the German teams are good at cultivating stadium atmosphere because they're so far ahead on points 1 and 2.
     
  20. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    985138779383123968 is not a valid tweet id

    985138899814158337 is not a valid tweet id

    985139015694286850 is not a valid tweet id
     
  21. cantona94

    cantona94 Member

    Jul 16, 2000
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How reputable would you rate this guy? Do you think there’s some validity to this info?
     
  22. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Mular is also saying Enrique to Chelsea
    985138043224027138 is not a valid tweet id
     
  23. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    He called the Aubameyang transfer, the Coutinho one, and a couple of others.

    It is better than talking about football stadiums, so meh.
     
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  24. cantona94

    cantona94 Member

    Jul 16, 2000
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nice! Please, for the love of god, let him be right again then...
     
  25. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    January
     

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