What? Would you rather have a shopping cart or a garden hose? Two completely different animals, and an irrational question.
I think the more relevant question is would you rather have Ivanov or Pope. We essentially traded Pope for an allocation... and if we'd kept Pope, we'd probably have gotten Stewart and passed on Ivanov. I don't know if anyone can judge the answer right now because Ivanov is such a great unknown. However, Hudson will get 100% of the credit or blame depending on the answer.
Ivanov is cheaper, presumably. That opens cap space for another player. So Pope for Ivanov + another player? Depends on who the other player is...
We wouldn't have been able to clear the cap room to sign Stewart without trading Pope. NY would not have taken Moreno alone...
Re: What? If you could have one or the other who would you choose? Not a hard question to understand for most people except apparently you.
Re: Re: What? What is this, the Metrostars board? Remember what Eazy-E said, "We're all in the same gang" If I'm being sentimental and considering DC United team identity, Pope. Strictly on what each player brings to the table on the field - Stewart.
Re: Re: What? Hey, I didn't mean to sound peckish! Just pointing out the inherent difficulties in making the comparison.
If we hadn't done the Mutts deal, I think Moreno (or possibly Etcheverry) would have been waived and we'd have acquired Stewart with our allocation and that cap space. Just my $.02. I view our moves offseason moves like this: Pope for Ivanov Moreno's cap space for Stewart ABMOD for Petke Mapp for Kovalenko a beer and a hot dog for Harkes and Hristo Personally, I like each move.
I don't like Pope for Ivanov more. We gave up a world class defender for an unproven player of the same position. I don't like giving up Moreno. We could have cut Etch just as easily to make room for Stewart. Moreno might return to form. Etch is too old and slow. He's done.
Stewart or Moreno - I'd pick Stewart. Pope or Ivanov - I'd pick Pope. For purely sentimental reasons, I'd rather have Pope than Stewart, but I think given the fact that Ivanov looks like a good defender, and the fact that Nelsen and Reyes are back there too, I'll choose Stewart over Pope. That's a tough one though.
I'll love getting Stewart a whole lot more when we trade him to Dallas next week for Jason Kreis and Bobby Rhine. I'm still betting Stewart won't play a minute here until May 3rd when he shows up in a Dallas uniform
Re: Re: Re: What? Not a problem. Sorry about my tart reply. If I was looking at the team standpoint of present day then I would choose Stewart. But if I was starting a team up from scratch I would take Pope.
Re: Re: Stewart or Pope? I hope you're wrong about that. We're not going to use an allocation and then trade it away.
It seems to me that the question should be whether it is better to have Stewart, Petke, and Ivanov or Pope and Moreno. Having two decent defenders in place of Pope provides a lot of depth for the defense and def. midfield positions. Stewart hopefully will be healthy as he usually is it seems; whereas, Moreno is usually either hurt or out of shape. To top it off, The cap situation is not that much of a problem since Etch is likely to be gone after this season as well. DC with these new players and the addition of Kovalenko provides quite a few quality interchangeable parts. All of whom are experienced and still have game. I guess the biggest question now is who is going to be a regular scorer next to Stewart.
Re: What? I've been thinking about this one all day... Pope, Moreno and Williams for Ivanov, Petke, the #5 draft pick and a shitload of cap space. And it's the cap space that lets us sign Kovalenko instead of Mapp, gives us room to actually use the #1 and #5 picks we've got, acquire Stewart and possibly even make another major(ish) signing (by trading draft picks). So assuming we draft well and/or make another move, it's actually a great trade.
Okay, so I'm a little behind... The only move I wish hadn't happened was the loss of Pope. I've seen nearly every match since '96 and I can never, ever, remember seeing Pope make a major mistake. Maybe it happened one of the few times I wasn't watching or when I got up to get a beer or something, but that's a pretty remarkable record. Many years he was the ONLY thing holding together a ridiculously poor backline. I wish there were a way that they could have juggled things a little more to keep Eddie - I'd much rather see Etch go at this point in his career and pass on Ivanov. Replace Ivanov with Pope and take a look at this side on paper. Man! In any event he never really got the credit he deserved while he was here for his on- or off-field performance. We need to stage a rousing welcome when he shows up at RFK, regardless of the fact he'll wearing the evil red and black stripes. Nontheless, kudos to Ray and the DC front-office - it's going to be an exciting season. I just wish Eddie was around to be a part of it.
You must have been drinking a lot of beer last year. I don't blame you. But I saw Eddie get torched repeatedly by Donovan, Ruiz and Twellman, and then I was reminded that Bobby friggin' Rhine turned our Ed inside out on the last game day. I don't miss Eddie, though I wish him well. He was gone too often, and hurt too much for the last couple of years. His decline was less flashy, and therefore less obvious than Moreno's, but no less impactful. The only time he played at 100% in the last two years was with the National team. That's wonderful, but I don't see where he was a world-class defender when he wore black. Last year, he wasn't even the second-best defender on our TEAM, let alone in the League. I hope he recovers. I hope he does well. But our team is significantly better for his absence. In 2000 perhaps. In 2001 and 2002, he was part of the problem, not part of the solution. I wouldn't. IF Eddie recovers health and form, I'd agree with you. But if he had, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Same for Moreno. Same for Etch ... I disagree. I think that side is worse. I'm also not blind to the fact that without trading Eddie, we're STUCK with the same roster we had last year. None of those changes get made without trading Eddie. The League isn't going to permit us to simply cut Moreno and Etcheverry. It ain't happening. I disagree with that emphatically. I think Eddie DID get the credit he deserved--or we wouldn't be having this discussion. I'll certainly agree to the rousing welcome. Do I wish Eddie was going to be part of United's resurgence? Well, yes. But then I also wish Diablo and Moreno and Williams could be a part of it too. It wasn't going to happen. Don't get me wrong--Moreno was my favorite player. But he was a cancer. Pope was the foundation of our Championship squads, but as long as he was on the team, we were never going to get back into the playoffs. If the choice is trade Pope or suffer through another couple of years of suckitude, I pull the trigger on that trade every single time. And three times on Sunday.
Eddie Pope has been my absolute favorite player in the game, and I have a hunch that he and the rest of the USMNT stars are all going to have a very season -- is going to have a very strong year (It's off the main topic but here's the theory: Last year, Pope, Mathis, Donovan, Beasley, McBride, etc. all suffered injuries during an incredibly gruelling year, and all seemed to play at less-than-full intensity, looking at MLS as an injury risk before the WC and a psychological let-down after it. Now, they've all had their first real off-season rest period in a couple years, and are more likely to be looking at club duty as their first priority). But we can't ignore the reality that a team with Eddie Pope at the core of its defense has stunk to high heavan for three seasons running. We had to make radical changes. Letting Eddie go was necessary not only as a catalyst to the Metros deal and all that followed, but as the biggest part of mixing up the deck and getting a fresh start. Given my druthers, I'd have accomplished the same thing by keeping Pope and letting Etch go, but I guess we have to take management's word that it wasn't an option.
Why would we go through all the trouble of getting a contract together, signing him and making a big deal about his acquisition just to trade him? If this deal was going to happen, I think we would have traded our allocation to the Burn and let them do all the leg work. It doesn't make any sense to trade him now. God, I hope I am right!!!